tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jan 05 10:09:19 1998

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Re: KLBC: waqmey lutuQ verenganpu'

According to 'elren maqa'vIan:
> 
> >At 19:52 98-01-02 -0800, 'elren wrote:
> >}I was bored today so I thought I would try and translate a Black 
> Sabbath 
> >}song. It was tougher than I thought in places, but I gave it a go 
> >}anyway... 
> >
> >yb 667ttytttjn 67
> >
> >(Qov bangs her forehead on the keyboard a few times)
> >
> 
> (QovvaD SeHlaw chu' nob 'elren)
> 
> >It is really really really frustrating for me to have to try to 
> >correct translations by someone who is not ready to
> >translate...
> 
> I would just like to make a few points about this.
> 
> A. You have no idea what level I am at with the Klingon Language, and 
> therefore should not be saying whether or not I am ready to translate 
> other people's english.

You gave the header KLBC. That implies that you are a beginner
wanting help from the Beginner's Grammarian. That is one piece
of evidence that you are not ready to translate other people's
text. You also had a lot of basic errors in your text. That's
evidence item #2.

I'm completely with Qov on this one. You have no idea how
abusive it is to a BG to take a chunk of English text, thow it
through some personally devised process that doesn't seem to be
close to [study each line of the text to fully comprehend the
meaning behind it, sweep through the tools of the Klingon
language and try to use the best one to express the thoughts
behind the text], and then spew it at the BG and say, "I made
it. You fix it."

It takes less time for you to make a mess than it takes the BG
to clean it up, especially when you are working from text whose
meaning you probably don't work too hard at fully absorbing. It
is especially true of song lyrics and other poetry.

> B. I did not ask for your advice on how I should translate work, I just 
> wanted you to look at the grammer and vocab that I used in the 
> translation, and tell whether or not it is the correct use of it.

If you are not interested in how to translate things well, then
why are you wasting the BG's time?

> C. I am not the greatest person at learning languages, I have been 
> learning Klingon for about 5 years now, and the way I was taught to 
> learn languages at school was by translateing sentances I was given, in 
> order to build vocabulary and practice grammer. Since vocab is my worst 
> spot, I simply use this sort of exercise to learn new words that I 
> wouldn't normally use when wrighting my own thoughts, therefore 
> expanding my vocab.

So, translate something you think you completely understand as
if it WERE your own thoughts, and, if you put KLBC on it, do so
in small enough chunks that the BG can take care of your needs
along with everyone else's. Don't get greedy with an exercise
that you devise which may be speedy (and sloppy) for you, but
requires extended, meticulous VOLUNTEER work by the BG.

> D. A great deal of the time, the Klingon Language does not have the 
> words I want to use in order to put across my thoughts, and I get left 
> with very bland sentances which have little to do with my orginal ideas.

So, give us one of your spicier thoughts that you can't
translate and ask for help on how to translate it.

> >I don't think you proofread this: there is a mistyped or misspelled 
> >word in almost every line. 

Note that remark. It is the one that combines with your
criticism of her handling of your work to make me "displeased"
with your behavior. You can do better than this.

So, why don't you do better than this?

> The spelling mistakes, I apologise for, I was typing it into my computer 
> from a handwritten version and didn't have my TKD with me to check the 
> spelling, and my handwriting is bad ;)

So, you want Qov to take the time to do her job to your liking,
but you don't want to have to take the time to do your own job
well. I hope you recognize this.

> One last point, you say "Canon shows", and that is not very helpful 
> unless you quote the canon, and then give an example of how to say the 
> line correctly; 
> 
> ..as far as I can see, and I don't have every single peice of canon 
> stored in my head, I go home would be juH jIjaH...
> 
> unless it says something in TKD, how am I supposed to know otherwise, 
> and get it right next time?

This is something that either simply comes from experience and
memorization or though some sort of personal organization. I
work at improving both of these. If you don't work at either,
you won't improve.

I have a database I'm constantly updating with notes about the
use of each verb, especially in terms of its relationships with
objects. {jaH}, for instance, has never been used with any
direct object, so far as I have seen. {ghoS} uses the place one
approaches as direct object.

These two areas help each other. Because I went to the trouble
to build the database, I remember a lot of canon. Because I
have build and maintain five different dictionaries, my
vocabulary improves over time.

It's not that I want to be too harsh on you, but Qov volunteers
a lot of high quality work for the benefit of others. I don't
see you attempting to benefit anyone but yourself, and I really
don't like one in your position giving such a hard time to one
in her position.

bIyaj'a'?

> >
> >Qov     [email protected]
> >Beginners' Grammarian                 
> >
> >
> 
> Qapla' 'ej QaQjaj HeghlIj
> 
>  -----------------------------------------------------------
> |'elren maqa'vIan HoD, IKC q'rataq, KWS | [email protected] |
> |   Petty Officer, Communications Officer ILP Blood Sword   |
> | http://www.cryogen.com/elren | KLI member | UIN 22661781  |
> |       'ej Sarq Hurgh lIgh lIghwI' Hurgh 'e' vIlegh        |
> |   'ej Hegh 'oH lIghwI' pong'e' 'ej rop 'oH Sarq pong'e'   |
>  -----------------------------------------------------------
> 
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> 

charghwI'

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