tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Feb 05 13:37:32 1998
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Re: introduction
- From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: introduction
- Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 16:36:59 -0500 (EST)
- In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> from "Doneq" at Feb 5, 98 01:07:05 pm
Once these pronunciation threads get going, they take forever
to die because each speaker wants a unique way to express the
proper pronunciation. I usually stay out of it, but this one
struck a nerve.
According to Doneq:
>
> ghItlh Albert Arendsen
>
> > since I had already learned the pronounciation from the KLI site I didn't
> > really bother to read that part of TKD... as you describe it the sound made
> > exactly the same as many Dutch people prounounce the [r], which is not the
> > official Dutch pronounciation, btw ;-)
>
> I pronounce the [r] that way (never realized it was wrong...), but
> the Klingon [gh] doesn't sound that way when I pronounce it. Usually,
> I'm lazy, and I just say a Dutch [g], but as I hear Okrand pronounce
> it on the tapes, it should be something like [gr].
The Klingon {gh} is basically a vocalized {H}. That makes it
essentially a growl at the back of the throat.
> So, what I'm saying is, if I pronounce {ghargh} in a way that I think
> is correct, I'd be saying somthing like [grargr]. (With an [r] as
> mentioned above, not an English [r], so it sounds even raspier. I
> really like Klingon, apart from the pain in my throat ;)
This has to be wrong because the {r} sound before {gh} is
nothing like any part of the {gh} sound. It is much farther
forward in the mouth. In fact, it is focussed on the opposite
end of the tongue.
Normally, a Klingon {r} is lightly trilled, like most European
{r}s. English does not generally do this, unless you are a very
dramatic Shakespearian actor who doesn't understand the concept
of "off stage". It is a vocalized sound shaped by the tip of
the tongue.
Most people modify this when it preceeds the {gh}, pronouncing
it more like an American "r", because it is simply difficult to
go from a trilled "r" at the tip of the tongue to the vocalized
{H} at the back of the throat. It can be done. I do it, when I
really work at it, but it is not easy. {rgh} happens in my name
{charghwI'}, so I figured it would be important to know how to
pronounce it well.
Still, trilled or not, the {r} sound is shaped by the tip of
the tongue while the {gh} sound is shaped by the back of the
throat. It is not as deep as the {Q} sound, but it is
definitely shaped by the throat and not the tongue tip.
So, I don't care HOW you pronunce a Dutch "r", there is no such
thing as an "r" sound that can exist both in {r} and in {gh}
such that {ghargh} can be pronounced as "grargr".
> (Amazing, all those discussions just about *one* letter in the
> alphabet... :)
Without it, my name becomes {charwI'}. I don't respond well to
that.
> > Chakotay
> >
> >
> >
>
> /Doneq
> ______
> yIvoq 'ach yI'ol
>
charghghghghghghghghghgwI'