tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Dec 10 06:49:31 1998

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Re: Klingon Bird of Prey (KBP) poster: THE TEXT!

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:35:48 -0800 (PST) Steven Boozer 
<[email protected]> wrote:

...
> : > muDDaq 'eDSeHcha lulaQlu'bogh: jav
> : > Atmosperic Take-Off/Landing Thursters - 6
> : 
> : {'eDSeHcha} is obviously a new word, the singular form and not 
> : an implied plural, since {laQlu'} gets {lu-} in front of it. In 
> : other words, if it were a word which implied plurality, it would 
> : be grammatically singular and he would not have used {lu-}.
> 
> "retro-rockets"? 

Not really. "Retro-rockets" are not built to take off. They are 
also not built to help land on land. They are just built to 
decellerate enough to pop a parachute without ripping it off. In 
this case, I'm sure it is the set of thrusters pointing 
downward, used for flying, hovering, landing and taking off 
while in the atmosphere. Basically, they fight gravity. They are 
not used during space travel.

They might even involve intakes, like a jet, rather than 
involving rockets which don't need air, or warp fields which one 
presumes don't really work all that well in air. I'm not sure 
whether the consequences would be worse for the ship or the 
planet left behind, but I definitely get the sense that ships 
get clear of the atmosphere before kicking in the warp drive.

Attitude control thrusters are simply little thrusters used to 
rotate the ship on one axis or another. They don't actually push 
the ship anywhere, though they might be used to nudge it 
slightly while docking or other delicate maneuvers.

> As to plurality, note that there are six of them, perhaps
> fired individually.  Compare {lolSeHcha} "attitude control thrusters", and

...

Just look at {peng} and {cha}. It doesn't matter whether they 
are used together or separately. The question is, does this word 
take a plural suffix? {cha} doesn't under any circumstances. 
{peng} doesn't, except to indicate "scattered all about".

We know that plural suffixes are optional and often omitted when 
there is other grammatical evidence indicating plurality. In 
this case, we have {lu-}, so we know that we are talking about 
more than one thruster, AND we know that this word is different 
from {cha} in that it is being treated as plural grammatically.

Thinking about it more, I now realize that this means one of two 
things. Most likely it means that {'eDSeHcha} is the singular 
and {'eDSeHchamey} is the plural, but in this case, since we 
already have {lu-} telling us it is plural, he just omitted the 
plural suffix.

There is a smaller likelihood that {'eDSeHcha} is the singular 
form and SOMETHING ELSE is the plural form, but he used the 
singular form with {lu-} when he could just as easily have used 
the plural form WITHOUT {lu-}. I don't think this is how it 
works, but it could. Would he ever say {peng lubaHlu'}? I expect 
that he would instead say {cha baHlu'}. See what I mean?

I offer this just because it is interesting to think about and 
language can be arbitrary enough to do this. I frankly hope it 
doesn't, however.

I've had a lot of dreams that didn't fly, however...

...
> : > pIvchem lIngwI' DaHmey: cha'
> : > Warp Field Generation Arrays - 2
> : 
> : DaH = array. Another new word. Also, {pIvchem} follows in the 
> : footsteps of {pIvghor} and {pIvlob} and does not imply that "the 
> : field is healthy".
> 
> Not really:  {nISwI' DaH} "disruptor banks", pu'DaH "phaser banks", and
> possibly {chuyDaH} "thrusters" (as opposed to a single large rocket).

Throughout all of this, I don't think {DaH} has appeared in any 
word list by Okrand as a word unto itself meaning "array". I'm 
always cautious about that. Some things have multiple word names 
which don't really stand alone. I think the word {qa'meH} fit 
that category until Okrand established that it stood alone. 
Similarly, I respected that until Okrand literally gave us 
{bey'} as a separate word, I didn't really want to presume 
exactly what it meant. He has definitely told us that in 
polysyllabic nouns (like chuyDaH}, we can't presume that the 
pieces can be used as separate nouns unless we know that from 
other means.

...
> : > wey jolpat: wa' (jav ghotpu')
> : > Personnel Transporter - 1 (6 Man)
> : 
> : This discourages one from interpreting {wey} as specifying any 
> : given number of men, unless you consider 6 to be that number. Do 
> : six men make a "company"?
> 
> {wey} is a company in the sense of the entire crew, i.e. the ship's company. 
> Possibly not an infantry unit, like squad or division.  We'd need more
> texts to
> know for sure.

So, how many crew members does this ship normally carry? More 
than six?

>  A ship's full complement of personnel, crew plus officers, is
>  called a {wey}, perhaps best translated as "company". (KGT p50)
> 
> : >  QeD patmey noch patmey je
> : >  Science and Remote Sensing Systems 
> : 
> : He ignored the word "remote". Daj.
> :
> : > chuq'a'
> : > long range
> 
> "science systems and sensor systems".  I guess Klingons aren't particularly
> interested in having close-range sensors on a warship, just the long-range
> ones
> that can warn you about an approching enemy.

Only cowards want to be warned of approaching enemies! On MY 
ship, I want long range sensors to find TARGETS! I don't care if 
that target is approaching me or fleeing. There is no such thing 
as an approaching enemy; merely variations in the closing 
velocity of targets. {{:)>

Come to my ship. We know how to rock.
  
> : >  Qum patmey
> : >  Communications Systems
> : 
> : Before I concede losing ANOTHER argument, I'll point out that 
> : this looks a whole lot like an abbridged {QummeH patmey} to me. 
> : When it is a technical term hanging in space like this, it is 
> : not really possible to know if this is a generic nominal use of 
> : {Qum} or if it is simply part of a fossilized name (kept as a 
> : separate word, at least).
> :
> : > 2. Qum De'wI'
> : >    Communications Computer
> : 
> : Second example of {Qum} either as noun or as abbridged {QummeH}. 
> : It would be nice to get a clear definition from Okrand.
> :
> : > 5. Qum SeHlaw
> : >    Communications Console
> : 
> : Again, QummeH/noun?
>   
> Three examples of {Qum} "communications" as a noun ... four, counting {QumpIn}
> "communications officer".  Conceed, charghwI'!

I'd be happier if I had it defined in noun form as a separate 
word. Again, I can't tell if this is just a fossilized term or 
if {Qum} really can stand alone as a word meaning 
"Communications" (whatever THAT means). I can only assume that 
it means "communications" in the sense of "technology relating 
to communication". Is that the way it should appear in the New 
Words List?

> : > Hung buv rav: patlh Hut
> : > Classified Level 9 and Above
> : 
> : Most curious. "Security classification floor: Level 9." No 
> : mention of "and Above". Not enough context here to really 
> : understand this whole example.
> 
> I took {rav} "floor" to be "minimum" - i.e. you need a minimum security
> classification (Hung buv) of Level 9 (patlh Hut) or above to know about the
> ship's computer systems.  I.e. your clearance has to be above the Level 9
> floor, or "threshold" as we might say in English.

That is an interesting expansion of the definition not mentioned 
when he gave us the word {rav}. I guess that belongs in the NWL, 
too.
 
> : >  tlhIngan toQDuj 'ey'mey tetlh
> : >  Klingon Bird of Prey Technical Callouts
> : 
> : New word for "callout". Of course, when you call out, what sound 
> : do you make, eh?
> 
> ghuy'cha'!!!  Sorry, that should be {'ay'mey}.  Even after I proofread it
> three
> times, errors got by me.  I guess I was in a bit of a rush to get this out,
> after learning about the poster over two weeks ago and waiting for it to come
> mail order.  

Thank you for the clarification. This is exactly the kind of 
thing I DON'T want to go to the NWL before it gets cleaned up.
 
> It's a "parts list".  Again, an equivalent translation, not an exact one. 
> Still, it would have made a nice pun.
> 
> : > 7. 'otlh peng baHjan
> : >    Photon Torpedo Launcher
> : 
> : New word {baHjan}, showing that he, unlike us, can combine a 
> : verb and noun to make a new noun.
> 
> Don't you want to see this as an abbreviated *{baHmeH jan}?

This is the place Okrand has leeway that it seems many of us 
don't understand. While it is true that compound nouns exist, it 
is also true that polysyllabic nouns exist that are not compound 
nouns. So long as he holds to the basic sound structure of a 
Klingon word, he can combine any syllables he likes to make a 
new noun. Yes, likely, for me, this comes from {baHmeH jan} 
which eventually became a new word {baHjan}. That doesn't mean 
that {baH} can now be used as a noun.
   
> : > 8. peng baHjan tuj ghImwI'
> : >    Heat Exhaust for Torpedo Launcher
> : 
> : I think I just found the mistake voragh was talking about. 
> : Unless, of course, this device gets rid of heat via political 
> : maneuverings.
> 
> Full marks.  go to the head of the class.

jIbel.

> : > 9. qoD QutlhwI' ngaDmoHwI'
> : >    Inner Support Stabilizer
> : 
> : We get a new word for non-military support.
> 
> This refers to those large shock absorber like supports running from floor to
> ceiling flanking the captain's chair on the bridge.

Now, if we could just figure out what it does... Perhaps 
Klingons don't consume power for structural integrity fields and 
instead just build strong, flexible structures.

... 
> : > 15. De'wI' SoSbor'a'
> : >     Main Computer Core
> : 
> : Do I see a play on "motherboard"?
> 
> Bingo!  I *knew* there was a pun there.

I'm sure there are several others as yet undiscovered. I'm ...

No.

It just hit me why Okrand didn't use {jergho} instead of 
{yergho}. I believe that in Hebrew, the "J" is pronounced more 
like "Y".
  
...
> : > 40. De'wI' Qulpa'
> : >     Computer Research Lab
> :  
> : Yet another verb becomes part of a polysyllabic noun.
> 
> In light of your argument re {Qum}, why don't you see this as an abbreviated
> {*QulmeH pa'}?

Again, it could be, but the point is, it is just a polysyllabic 
noun. It doesn't have to be a compound noun. We can't argue that 
{Qul} is now a noun. Not yet.
  
> : > Voragh                         
> : > Ca'Non Master of the Klingons 
> : 
> : charghwI' 'utlh
>  
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Voragh                            "Grammatici certant et adhuc sub judice
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons      lis est."         Horace (Ars Poetica)

charghwI' 'utlh

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