tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Apr 20 19:48:42 1998

Back to archive top level

To this year's listing

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]

Re: chechtaHvIS chIj

From: WestphalWz <[email protected]>


>jIHvaD jabbI'IDvam HIjmeH jupwI' DIvI' Hol lo' ghaH
>tlhIHvaD vImughta'
>
>SoSoy     lopno' vIjeSpu' 'ej choja'pu'bogh vIqImbej

(SuStel begins to go into shock.)  You have included three highly
questionable constructions into this one sentence!

As we know, {jeS} is *not* defined as "participate in," just as
"participate."  Therefore, this should be {lopno'Daq jIjeSpu'} "I have
participated at a celebration."

As we also know, {qIm} is *not* defined as "pay attention to," but as "pay
attention."  Sometimes I would recommend {buS}, but not this time: you're
not thinking *only* about the thing, you're just making sure you heed it.
Before I recast this, let me get to the third part.

You've used a headless relative clause as a noun.  Despite the fact that I
myself am the person who found such an example spoken by Okrand, I am
exceedingly leery as to its authenticity in the canon of Klingon.
{choja'pu'bogh}, as far as I can tell, should simply never occur in Klingon
(provided that the object of {ja'} is always the person being spoken to).

Finally, your use of perfective is extremely puzzling.  Are you saying that
the going to the party is over, but the heeding of the advice is not?  Since
you're telling a story, the time of the story should represent neutral
aspect.

Now for the recasting.

lopno'Daq jIjeStaH.  choqeSpu' 'ej jIlobtaH.
I was participating at the celebration.  You had advised me and I was
obeying.

>chechtlhutlh vItlhutlhbe' 'e' chora'     vaj 'awje' neH vItlhutlhta'

Again, what is the appropriate object of {ra'}?  In every instance in canon
that I can find (and there are many), the person being commanded is the
object (not explicitly stated, so it *could* be a indirect object prefix
trick), except for one case where there is absolutely no object at all.

Furthermore, I'm of the opinion that {ra'} is a verb of saying.  I shall
rewrite this, using two versions.  Notice my use of aspect.

Verb of saying:
chechtlhutlh yItlhutlhQo' chora'pu', vaj 'awje' neH vItlhutlhtaH.
You had commanded me not to drink {chechtlhutlh}, so I was drinking only
{'awje'}.

Not a verb of saying:
chuchtlhutlh vItlhutlhbe'meH chora'pu', vaj 'awje' neH vItlhutlhtaH.
You had commanded me so that I would not drink {chechtlhutlh}, so I was
drinking only {'awje'}.

>yabDaq jIHemqu'     SoSoy     teH choja'pu'bogh

Again, this is a headless relative clause.

teH qeSlIj.
Your advice was true.

qar qeSlIj.
Your advice was correct.

>mIw QaQ vIpabpu' 'e' vISov     reH bIlugh 'e' vISov     SoSoy

Your use of aspect makes it difficult to know what's taking place when.  My
guess is you actually meant this:

mIw QaQ vIpabtaH 'e' vISov.  reH bIlugh 'e' vISov, SoSoy.
I know I was following a good procedure.  I know you're always right, Mommy.

>DaH rIntaH lopno'     chIjchoHpu'mo' vogh wIleghlaHbe'bogh lughoS Hoch

"Because he/she/it/they had begun to navigate, everyone headed toward
someplace which we could not see."

It's much better if you put your subjects early on in the sentence;
otherwise we've got to wait for the whole thing to end before we actually
know who's doing what.  I presume your subject is {Hoch}.

Please note that {Hoch} is a singular noun, though it has a plural meaning,
and is grammatically singular.  Thus, you need to drop the {lu-} on
{lughoS}.

You're talking about "Now the celebration was over."  Then you start talking
about people who "had begun" to navigate.  If they started navigating before
the celebration was over, this is fine, otherwise, drop the {-pu'} suffix on
{chIj}.

Finally, I have no idea what the sentence is trying to say!  {DaH rIntaH
lopno'.  chIjchoHmo' Hoch vogh wIleghlaHbe'bogh ghoS.}  "Now the party was
over.  Because everyone began to navigate, they headed for someplace which
we couldn't see."  Do you mean they drove off into the darkness, or
something?  You are being too vague for me to understand this.

>yavDujwIj vIvongtaHvIS juHDaq jIcheghchu' 'e' vISov

"While I was hypnotizing my groundship, I knew I made it all the way home."
Or, "I knew that I made it all the way home while I was hypnotizing my
groundship."  Okay, {vong} is obviously a typo.  What did you mean?  Also,
punctuation would help tremendously to determine if you did the <whatever>
while you knew or while you returned all the way home.

>ngoy'mo' 'ej ngaDmo' chonenchoHmoHmeH niW Dalo'bogh jIQobHa' 'e' vISov

Yikes!  What's {nIw}?  Did you mean {mIw}?

"Because he/she/it/they was/were responsible and because he/she/it/they
was/were stable, I was undangerous in order that the procedure which you
used you begin to make me mature."

Put the subject after the *first* verb!  Please try this sentence again,
carefully!  I'm not at all sure what you were saying here.

>lopno' Daqvo' mImejchoH     'ach HeDaq vIchIjchoHDI'......

I presume that was a typo for {jImejchoH} or {mamejchoH}.  Which one?

Also, you need {jIchIjchoHDI'}.

>muleghbe' latlh Duj chIjwI' 'ej mupaw'qu'     luch 'ughqu' rur

If you use {paw'}, it has no object.  Use {ngeQ} if you want to collide into
*something*.  Also, don't use {-qu'} if {pe'vIl} works even better!

Your subject keeps changing in the sentence, yet you don't make the change
explicitly.  I don't believe you mean that the other ship's navigator
resembled heavy equipment!

I'm not sure what "his ship resembled heavy equipment" would mean, however.
Perhaps a similie is not the best device here.  How about a simple statement
of fact?

muleghbe' latlh Duj chIjwI'.  pe'vIl DujwIj ngeQ DujDaj 'ughqu'.
Another ship's navigator didn't see me.  His very heavy ship collided with
mine forcefully.

>He DungDaq jIQottaHvIS jatlh yaS 'e' vIQoy

Almost perfect.  You're not lying in the area above the road, you're lying
*on* the road itself.

HeDaq jIQottaHvIS jatlh yaS 'e' vIQoy.
While I was lying on the road, I heard an officer speak.

>chech chIjwI' cha'DIch     'ach DaH jIpay jIH'e'

"The second navigator is/was drunk.  Now *I* regret."  You regret what?

>naDev jIQot 'ej jIHeghlI'     SoSoy     tugh bIpaw 'e' vItul

{jIQottaH} would probably be more effective, but otherwise this sentence is
fine.

>qatlh jIHvaD qaS wanI'vam     jorpu' yInwIj     jor     SuSDeq rur

You're playing with aspect again.  Is it {jorpu'} or {jor}?  And how does
your life resemble a bellows, or a bellows-type musical instrument?  They
don't explode, do they?

>Hoch loghwIjDaq 'Iw tu'lu'     'IwwIj 'oH HochHom'e'

"There is blood in each of my spaces.  Almost everything is my blood."  What
is this supposed to mean?

>jatlh Qel     tugh jIHegh

I presume you mean something like {jatlh Qel tugh bIHegh} "The doctor says,
'You will die soon.'"  And the Lord said, "Let there be punctuation!"

>qa'ja' vIneH     SoSoy     HIq vItlhutlhpu'be' 'e' vI'Ip
>latlh ghotpu' chaH chechtlhutlh tlhutlhwI'pu''e'     Qubbe' chaH
>ghaytan lopno' vIjeSpu'bogh jeS je chIjwI'vam chech

Again, {jeS} does not take an object.

>nIbbe' wa' wanI' neH     chech ghaH'e' 'ach jIHegh jIH'e'

>qatlh chechtaHvIS chIj     nuv yIn naQ QIHlaH

Who can?  Is the subject (and the object, in that case) singular or plural?
This is not clear, and probably should be.

>DaH 'oy' jejqu' vIQom     taj 'oy' rur

{Qom} is another intransitive verb.  Besides, I have no idea what "Now I
experience a very sharp pain an earthquake" is supposed to mean.

>yIt mupaw'pu'bogh chIjwI'     maybe' 'e' vIQub     SoSoy

yIt mungeQpu'bogh chIjwI'.

>naDev jIQot 'ej jIHeghlI'     mubejchu' chIjwI' chech

jIQottaH.

>loDnI'wI'vaD yIja'     SoSoy     yISaQQo'     vavoyvaD yIja'     yIyoH

This should either be

SoSoy, loDnI'wI'vaD yIjatlh yISaQQo'; vavoyvaD yIjatlh yIyoH.
Mommy, tell my brother not to cry, tell daddy to be brave.

or

SoSoy, loDnI'wI' yIja' yISaQQo'; vavoy yIja' yIyoH.
Mommy, tell my brother not to cry; tell daddy to be brave.

Note: If you think "mommy" and "daddy" sound silly in this context (I do),
they should be changed to {SoS} and {vav}, respectively.  Since the {-oy}
suffix tends to be dropped when one reaches adulthood, and since "mommy" and
"daddy" tend to change to "mom" and "dad" around that same time, this makes
sense.

>'ej yo' qIj vImuvpu'DI' molwIjDaq mu'mey vavoy puqbe' yInan

It took me a while to figure out that you were using your usual apposition
with {mu'mey vavmoy puqbe'}.  PUNCTUATION!  When speaking, the {vavoy
puqbe'} would be verbally set aside a bit to make it clear that it's a
quotation.  Do the same with punctuation!!!!!

>chIjwI'vetlhvaD ja'nISlu'pu'     bIchechtaHvIS yIchIjQo'

More aspect problems, and {jatlh} would be better suited to this than {ja'}.
I don't think the {-pu'} is appropriate at all.

>ghaHvaD ja'lu'pu'chugh vaj jIyInlaHtaH

Same problems as above.  Also, I'm curious as to what "If someone has told
to him, then I will be able to be living."

>SoSoy     Qatlh jItlhuHmeH 'ej jIHajchoH

Qatlh tlhutlhtaHghach.  jIHajchoH.
Breathing is difficult.  I begin to dread.

It would probably be better to say what you dread.  Death?  {mughIj Hegh}
"death scares me."

>jIHmo' yISaQQo'    qapoQpu'DI' reH jIH retlhDaq SoHpu'
>SoSoy     Qapla' jIjalthpa' jIghel neH

You're obviously translating "Before I say goodbye."  One *might*
rationalize your translation by saying that the mother is about to begin a
battle with her own grief or something, but that's unsatisfying.  I'd change
it to something like {jIHeghpa' rIntaH} "before I have finally died."

>jIchIjpa' HIq vItlhutlhpu'be'     vaj qatlh jIHeghnIS jIH

You've added extraneous aspect again.  {jIchIjpa' HIq vItlhutlhbe'} "Before
I navigated, I did not drink liquor."

>qatlh Hegh chunwI'pu'
>HIq HoS lutIv Hoch tlhInganna' net Sov
>pengoy'
>vaj SuvtaHvIS batlh Hegh Hoch jay'

bIqeSchu'!  'ej batlh bImughpu'!

SuStel
Stardate 98301.9

Back to archive top level