tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Apr 07 15:00:09 1998

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Re: Hi All!

qechmeywIj vIchel.

According to Alan Anderson:
> 
> John May wrote:
> >New to the list etc.
> 
> qalajqang.  Welcome etc.
... 
> >Is Klingon language structured/complete enough to interact at length
> >conversationally or is it restricted to the small vocabulary gleaned from ST
> >films and series?
...

Compared to Elvish, Klingon is QUITE complete. I count more
than 2,200 words and these can be expanded in meaning
considerably through the use of a respectably well thought out
set of suffixes. There are certainly limits to what can be
discussed, but at the fourth meeting of the Klingon Language
Institute I was stricken by how many people were having real
conversations using the language. People were skipping some of
the games and other planned activities so they could sit
together in the lobby swapping stories, telling jokes and
generally conversing.

At the end, I was priviledged to become involved with a rather
intense, emotional conversation (complete with tears) with two
other friends in which not a word of English was spoken. That's
when I knew the langauge had arrived to a most satisfying
maturity. It's expressive capabilities are quite satisfying,
especially considering the very brief span of its development.
The majority of its design occurred in a few months.

Add that The Klingon Way even gives us dialects and jargon. We
can talk about music, dance, food, cooking... These extend the
language quite a bit beyond the battlefield.

> The Klingon language is by no means "complete", but it's complete 
> enough for us to have lengthy conversations on everyday topics. 
> Trying to discuss Special Relativity in Klingon is difficult, but 
> still not impossible.

We've done it here on this list.

> >Are there many people who can do this if it is indeed possible?
> 
> law' jatlhwI' po' 'e' vInoH.
> 
> In order to count on my digits the number of people with whom I have 
> had extended discussions in Klingon, I'd have to take off my socks. :)

A quarter of a million copies of the original dictionary were
sold. From this, somewhere around a thousand people have joined
the KLI at one time or another (though most eventually left).
Hundreds remain.

Most of these don't speak the language. Many dozens flounder at
it. The rest of us don't mind because WE once floundered at it.
Given a little time, likely several dozens could read or write
much more Klingon than anyone anywhere can read or write
Elvish, from the materials on that language I've seen.

I'll make a wild guess and say that more than a dozen and less
than two dozen can comfortably converse in Klingon without a
lot of stress or constant digging out a dictionary. There are
half a dozen to a dozen who are downright inspirational.

I'm better with the written word than the spoken one, simply
because I have no one with whom to speak it verbally except for
one week out of each year. I rate my verbal skills somewhat
lower than others appear to.

You missed Krankor and ~mark perform their perfectly exicuted
rendition of "Who's On First" at qep'a' loSDIch...

> >I wont be so crass as to ask why you do it, but was it an instant thing due
> >to interest in language/s or did it develop as a progression from Trek
> >related pursuits generaly?
... 

I've always enjoyed Star Trek, but never really engaged in it
all that much until the third movie, Search For Spock, during
that fateful moment during the fist fight when Kirk pointed out
to Kruge that the planet was destroying itself all around them
and Kruge responded, "Yes! Invigorating, isn't it?"

That matched my lust for life, so when later that week I
encountered The Klingon Dictionary, I bought it and studied it.
A few weeks later, a friend at work nearly fell out of his
chair laughing when he received Email from a friend telling him
about the formation of the KLI. He thought it was hilarious
that people were actually learning to speak Klingon.

I got the address and joined the KLI and began receiving
HolQeD, the quarterly journal of the KLI. Through it, I learned
about the Email list. I continued to flounder with the language
until the month Krankor got angry with us all for jabbering
about the language without using it. He vowed that for a month,
he would write ONLY using tlhIngan Hol.

He picked me to be his translator for the members of the list
who could not read Klingon. Krankor was then the only
grammarian. So, for a month, I had to read and translate a
large stream of very clearly written Klingon text. That was a
major turning point in my skill.

~mark became co-grammarian, filling in for Krankor during a
temporary absence, and then sharing duties with Krankor upon
his return. They developed the concept of the Beginner's
Grammarian. I was on the short list of candidates but could not
serve due to other committments.

trI'qal was the first BG, followed by Holtej. I was the third
BG and served in that post for (if I remember correctly) a
couple years. At least it was longer than one year. I don't do
time well. Being BG polishes one's skills with the langauge
like nothing else. It is a lot of work and it is quite
rewarding to help others with the language and to stir their
enthusiasm for the warrior tongue.

I believe that Qov is the fourth BG to follow me (not counting
repeat performances by other BGs). It has become a rather
special virtual community with an annual party to celebrate our
curious hobby.

> >I am an avid Trek, and more recently Voyager devotee and can see where the
> >compulsion comes from. In my youthful, acid clouded, (visionary) days, LIVED
> >in the Middle Earth with The Hobbits, Gandalf et al. So I am no stranger to
> >different worlds.
...

I enjoy playing with a Klingon personna, but the lines between
it and my "real" self have blurred a bit and I slip back and
forth, regardless of the setting. I have fun a lot. Being
Klingon is part of that fun. The Klingon personna does not
respect the lines between the human and Klingon personna,
though making a living and having human friends are good things
which don't involve Klingonness. I do occasionally feel thick
blood during a contra dance, however...

> >Another question. Are you mainly young people? My yardstick is my own age of
> >forty'ish, and are your familys, children(?) as interested as yourselves?
...

I'm 43. There are a few speakers older than me, but not many.
The youngest fluent speakers tend to be around 16, though we
have a few toddlers being taught a phrase or two now and then.
Holtej was speaking Klingon exclusively to his son when his son
was first learning to speak, but I don't know that he has
sustained that practice...

> >Now for a good bit for you to show off your skills:
> >Anyone give me a few phrases to impress my friends with? Simple stuff with
> >pronunciation please! How about: Hello (is there an equivalent?) Goodbye,
> >and maybe a few choice insults. 
> 
> tlhIngan mu'ghom yIje' yIruch.
> 
> Go and buy yourself a copy of _The Klingon Dictionary_... 

I could not agree more. Why falsely impress your friends when
you have the opportunity to deserve the honor that you seek?
Few things are more embarrassing than to utter a phrase and
then have someone ask you how to say something other than your
prepared snippets, and you have to just stand there,
apologizing because you have no clue.

> >I realy like the Vulcan "Live long and
> >prosper"_"Peace and long life". No direct equvalent here I'm sure but is
> >there a Klingon ritual greeting?

Well, we butt heads, if that's what you mean.

Kidding aside, the most common, traditional Klingon greeting is
to walk up to someone and say what you want to say. The
language is direct, concise and engaging. Ritualistic greetings
are not. Don't bother with carrier detect. Send packets.

> tlhIngan Hol Daghoj 'e' DaHech'a'?  Hol'e' buS ghomvam 'e' yIqaw.
> 
> So, are you going to learn Klingon?  Remember, this is a *language* 
> group.

bIjatlhchu'.

> -- ghunchu'wI'

charghwI'

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