tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jun 06 06:42:00 1995
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Re: "be proud of"
>Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 15:51:50 -0400
>Originator: [email protected]
>From: [email protected]
>On Fri, 2 Jun 1995 Mark E. Shoulson said
>>I have to disagree with ghunchi'wI' and agree with charghwI'. The
>>cleavage is neither the beneficiary nor recipient of pride; pride
>>isn't given to things, nor do they benefit from it. The cleavage is
>>the *cause* of the pride. I am proud of my cleavage means I am proud
>>*due to* my cleavage.
>NO, NO, and emphatically NO! My mistake was I used a definition of
>proud that nobody seems to use. I use the word "proud" to mean "to
>have pride." If someone is proud, they have pride in themselves. If
>I am proud of my cleavage, (which I am) then I have pride for it. I
>do not have pride in myself because of the cleavage There are tons of
>objects one can have pride in. Ask any costumer what they have for
>their outfit, they have pride. I'll admit that they are proud of the
>work that went into it. But they do not have pride in themselves for
>having to work so hard.
>I think our problem is that MO used an adjective to make a verb.(i.e.
>proud is not a verb by itself) That adjective has many definitions.
>Why can't we use all of them?
There's nothing special about "proud" that makes it an adjective and not a
verb... except that's how we use it in English. It's a VERB in Klingon,
a areal live honest-and-for-true verb. The difficulty may lie in the
multiple meanings, (though actually "proud" is better than most words
when it comes to not having too many meanings) but that's the case all
through TKD because Okrand didn't really give definitions but only gave
one-word glosses (which aren't enough really to explain a word).
I think our difference of opinion here lies not in how to define "proud"
(we both have a fair understanding of what being proud means), but in the
way the Klingon suffixes "-vaD" and "-mo'" work. It doesn't seem at all
feasible to me that you can be proud "for" something, i.e. for its benefit.
What does your cleavage get out of your pride? But you can be proud "for"
something in the sense of "because" of it.
Hmm. Wait, I see what you're trying to say. It looks like you're making a
*very* fine distinction in pride there, one I doubt we can be sure Klingon
would make. I could easily see Klingon lumping those concepts of pride
together, as indeed I and many other English speakers probably do. Of
course, that leaves us back with my perception of how things should be
versus yours, but at least we have a better concept of what each of us is
saying.
>r'Hul
~mark