tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Apr 17 13:07:45 1995
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Re: KLBC - DochHommey
On Mon, 17 Apr 1995 [email protected] wrote:
> I didn't want to take up bandwidth with this. If you feel others would
> benefit from these points, please feel free to post it.
This is why we put KLBC in the header. Beginners can learn a few things
from your questions while more experienced speakers can skip reading
this if they wish.
> > > tlhIngan Hol BBSDaq vIchu'
> > In this sentence, the prefix {vI-} would indicate that the verb {chu'}
> > has a direct object. Since the verb in your sentence has no object,
> > you would use {jIchu'} instead. {tlhIngan Hol BBSDaq} is not the object
> > of the verb, it simply states where {jIchu'} is taking place.
>
> So, am I correct in concluding that a verb with an indirect object
> (ie locative) is treated as having NO object? Would this apply to ALL
> Type 5 noun suffuxes? I would think so.
Technically, the locative suffix {-Daq} does not indicate an indirect
object. Klingon uses {-vaD} for indirect objects and uses other ways to
expess them as well. But you are correct in that nouns with the type 5
suffix are not the direct object of the verb.
wa'Hu' tachDaq romuluS HIq vItlhutlh. (Yesterday, I drank Romulan ale in a
bar.) {romuluS HIq} is the object of the verb. Therefore {vI-} is required.
wa'Hu' tachDaq jItlhutlh. (Yesterday, I drank in a bar.)
Here, there is no object, so I use the prefix {jI-}.
> I think a statement as an object would be treated as a direct object
> because the actual object is the pronoun {'e'}.
> For example: {bISopDI' tera'ngan Darur 'e' vItu'}
That's correct. The pronoun {'e'}, which represents the preceeding
sentence, is the object of the sentence which follows.
Also note there are three exceptions to using {'e'} for a sentence as
object:
1. {neH} (to want) does not use {'e'}:
jISop vIneH. (I want to eat.)
2. When the subject of the second sentence is indefinite (i.e. one, someone,
"they"), the pronoun {net} is used instead of {'e'}. The verb
suffix {-lu'} (indefinite subject) is omitted as well. Compare:
qur verenganpu' net Sov. (One knows Ferengis are greedy.)
qur veranganpu' 'e' Sov. (He/she/it knows Ferengis are greedy.)
qur verenganpu' 'e' vISov. (I know Ferengis are greedy.)
3. {'e'} is not used with verbs of speaking. Actually, this is not a
sentence as object construction, the two sentences simply follow each other.
bIQagh vIja'ta' (I had told him he was mistaken. Literally: I had told
him, "You are mistaken.") Here the object of {vIja'ta'} is "him" and not
the preceeding sentence. Therefore you could also say {vIja'ta' bIQagh}.
> DaQtIq wrote a little story on 4/14/95 which raised a couple questions.
> > {qeylIS vavwI' je vInajDI' vIvem}
> How do I say "I dreamed about someone"? {bInajtaHvIS ghot vIghompu'} ?
That says, "While YOU are dreaming, I had encountered a person."
In this case, I would probably omit {-pu'}. To me it could ambiguously
mean that during the time period under consideration, the event of
meeting a person had been completed and is over with. I would say:
jInajtaHvIS ghot vIghom. Literally, "While I was dreaming, I
encountered a person", or loosely, "I encountered a person in my
dream", or even more loosely, "I dream about a person."
> This statement should then read:
> {bInajtaHvIS qeylIS vavwI' vIghompu'DI' jIvem}
You also need to add the conjuction {je} (and); it comes after the second
noun it joins:
jInajtaHvIS qeylIS vavwI' je vIghompu'DI' jIvem.
(When I encountered Kahless and my father while I was dreaming, I woke up.)
or loosely, "I woke up when I encountered Kahless and my father in my
dream."
> > {vIHoHpa' nIH ghopwIj murIQmoH}
> If the object is a part of my body, should I say {ghopwIj rIQmoH} ?
You are correct, I overlooked the misuse of that verb prefix.
In DaQtIq's story, he was fighting two enemies, so perhaps he meant to say:
vIHoHpa' nIH ghopwIj lurIQmoH. (Before I killed them, they injured my
right hand.)
{ghopwIj rIQmoH} would be correct if he meant to say one of them injured
his hand.
> A personal note to charghwI':
>
> bIrop bIghItlh 'e' vIlaD jI'IQmoHpu'
Perhaps you meant: bIrop 'e' DaghItlh 'e' vIlaDDI' jI'IQpu'choH.
> ropmo' Heghchugh 'avwI' Hegh batlh 'oHbe'
Apparently, you are using {batlh} as an adjectival verb. You can't do
this because {batlh} is not a verb. I would say:
ropmo' Heghchugh 'avwI' Hegh quv 'oHbe'. or
ropmo' Heghchugh 'avwI' batlh Heghbe'.
> may'Daq rIQpu'mo' ropchugh 'avwI' - batlh 'oHvetlh
{batlh 'oHvetlh} doen't work. You're putting a noun suffix on a pronoun
which is functioning as a verb. Perhaps you could say something like
{quv ghu'vetlh} or {balth rop} instead.
> bIpIvqa' 'e' vItul
bIvqa' charghwI' 'e' vItul je. roplu'mo' Heghlu'DI' reH Do'Ha'qu'.
>
> Brad
yoDtargh