tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Mar 19 11:39:43 2015

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[Tlhingan-hol] > Subject: Re: paq'batlh text for Bing

Christoph Pichlmann ( [KLI Member]

.hmmessage P
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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>You DO realize that even people who are actively learning klingon might need a help, to look up a word, or confirm that what they cobbled together actually can be understood?<br>If someone wants to hack badly done klingon, there are ample resources for that right now. There have always been. A translator like bing makes it a fair bit easier, sure, but it's also easier to generate interest.<br>Not everyone thinks its fun to memorize (not learn) vocabulary or create a database of words just to have something to look it up. (It certainly isn't a learning experience - I don't have to actually read what I write when I'm just copying.)<br><br>When I'm trying to create a sentence, I constantly look up words at Klingonska, check them with pojwI' and would love to have something that could give a pointer for the klingon word I'm searching for.<br>Most of the time spent is trying to find synonyms that express the idea I have in mind but lack the precise word that exists in klingon.<br><br>I don't think anyone who actually thinks about it would ever use a machine translation and think they're done. Even with simple things like german&lt;&gt;english I wouldn't trust them enough.<br><br>Christoph<br><br><br><div>&gt; Message: 7<br>&gt; Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 13:14:36 -0400<br>&gt; From:<br>&gt; To: ""<br>&gt; 	&lt;;<br>&gt; Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] paq'batlh text for Bing<br>&gt; Message-ID: &lt;;<br>&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252<br>&gt; <br>&gt; Being able to speak a language with a limited population of speakers is fun, and I suspect it is good for my mind, expanding the depth of meaning that anything I translate contains because of this sometimes jarring difference between the scope and focus of the two radically different languages. The thought gets polished in the parsing.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; But starting with the population of people who think they can just use Bing and not have to learn the language, do you really expect anyone to put in the actual hours of effort it takes to learn the language? I suspect that all we?ll accomplish is lose the capacity to write a secret to someone in a language few outsiders could understand. Now, EVERYONE will be able to hack really badly done Klingon for mild amusement.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; And that?s pretty much where their effort will stop.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; I don?t care about people who write gibberish in pseudo-Klingon. Why do you? Do you think our cultural situation is improved because casual passers-by can write slightly more meaningful gibberish with the aid of computers?<br>&gt; <br>&gt; I would LOVE to have more people to speak Klingon with, but I want THEM to be doing the reading and writing and speaking and hearing. I don?t want them going to Bing or some other translator and have it handle the work, because if I wanted that, why bother dealing with them at all? I could just use Bing or some other translator myself.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; My favorite episode of the use of Klingon in my life was a very emotional conversation among Seqram, Qov and myself, full of tears and reassurance, stress and comfort between three people who didn?t have to drop back to some other language to have the conversation just because it was a real conversation instead of just practicing. It was beautiful.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; And Bing will never be the root cause of anything close to that. Nor will any other programmed crutch.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; I?m already overly reliant upon a lexicon because of lack of practice. As are most of us. We don?t need a sturdier crutch.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; We need spiritual spark.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; lojmIt tI?wI? nuv ?utlh<br>&gt; Retired Door Repair Guy<br>&gt; <br>&gt; &gt; On Mar 19, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Lieven &lt;; wrote:<br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt; Am 19.03.2015 um 17:14 schrieb Robyn Stewart:<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; Reason #1: Improving the worst Klingon on the net, as well as the best.<br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt; Not only the net, there are many other sources, even licensed Star Trek books(!) using Bing, like the klingon star chart in the book "Stellar Cartography".<br>&gt; &gt; (see for details)<br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; It?s still going to need work by an expert to be good Klingon, but it<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; will be closer to Klingon than to gibberish.<br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt; As Qov says, Bing will NEVER reach the skill of an experienced Klingon Speaker.<br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; Reason #6: Transference<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; too, on the grounds that if more people learn to speak Klingon it will<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; dilute the status of your rare skill?<br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt; It's like asking a professor why he is teaching his students, risking they may get better and more skilled than him, and the professor may lose his job?<br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt; -- <br>&gt; &gt; Lieven L. Litaer<br>&gt; &gt; aka Quvar valer 'utlh<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<br>&gt; &gt; Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br></div> 		 	   		  </div></body>
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