tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Oct 23 07:53:51 2013
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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Story: ghuv = The Recruit - 51
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier">This is a good time to review Okrand’s use of negation in complex sentences. (Some are easier to parse than others.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier"><br>
<b><br>
noH QapmeH wo' Qaw'lu'chugh yay chavbe'lu' 'ej wo' choqmeH may' DoHlu'chugh lujbe'lu'</b>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier">Destroying an empire to win a war is no victory, and ending a battle to save an empire is no defeat. TKW<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Courier">ngongmeH wa' DujDaq nuHmey nISbe'bogh So'wI' jomlu'pu'
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier">[<i>A cloaking device which didn't disrupt weaponry was installed in one experimental ship</i>. (untranslated on card)] S33<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Courier">loS</span></b><span style="font-family:Courier">...<b> qIb HeHDaq</b>,<b> 'u' SepmeyDaq Sovbe'lu'bogh lenglu'meH He ghoSlu'bogh retlhDaq 'oHtaH</b>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier">It waits... on the edge of the galaxy, beside a passage to unknown regions of the universe. S99<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Courier">jIHtaHbogh naDev vISovbe'</span></b><span style="font-family:Courier">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier">I'm lost. TKD<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Courier">Hov ghajbe'bogh ram rur pegh ghajbe'bogh jaj</span></b><span style="font-family:Courier">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier">A day without secrets is like a night without stars. PK<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Courier">quv Hutlh HoHbogh tlhIngan 'ach qabDaj 'angbe'bogh</span></b><span style="font-family:Courier">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier">A Klingon who kills without showing his face has no honor. TKW<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Courier">Dajatlhbogh vIyajlaHbe'
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier">I find no match for what you just said. KCD<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Courier">tajwIj 'oHbe' chorlIj jeqbogh Dochvetlh'e'</span></b><span style="font-family:Courier">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier">That is not my dagger protruding from your midsection. FTG<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Courier">yIntaHvIS qeylIS'e' lIjlaHbe'bogh vay' batlh 'etlhvam chenmoHlu'pu'</span></b><span style="font-family:Courier">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier">this sword of honor descends from the time of Kahless the Unforgettable.
<span style="text-transform:uppercase">S8<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier;text-transform:uppercase"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">DuHIv jagh Dangu'laHbe'bogh, vaj bIwunchoH 'ej bIpujchoH
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">Attack by unknown enemy leaves you vulnerable and weak. MKE<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family:Courier"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">nuH'e' qengbogh mangghomvam luDel 'e' ra' molor, lujang maS'e' loQ So'be'bogh QIb lurur
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">Molor asks them what weapons this army carries, they reply, shaped as the crescent moon. PB<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family:Courier"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Courier">vaSvamDaq tuq veng je quvvaD Heghqangbogh SuvwI’ tu’be’lu’’a’
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier">Is there nobody in this hall prepared to die for the honor of your tribe and city? PB</span><span style="font-family:"Courier New""><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family:Courier"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Robyn Stewart [mailto:[email protected]]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 23, 2013 9:37 AM<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The one that trips me up is when complex verbs are reflexive. QeS does it all the time: rIQ'eghmoHlaHbe'mo' or the like. As non native speakers it's hard to know what's just our understanding and what's poor Klingon. It's possible, in universe,
that the proverb itself would be hard to parse were it not so familiar. I agree that negation is sometimes harder to parse.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In this case:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span>luSopbe'meH yIHmey boghbejpu' torgh<span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">is worse, I think. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On 2013-10-23, at 0:31, "De'vID" <<a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p>Qov:<br>
> luSopmeH yIH boghbe'bejpu' torgh. = "Torg was definitely not born for<br>
> tribbles to eat him."<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I have trouble parsing {-meH} with negation. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I initially read that as:<br>
"Torg was (definitely not born) for tribbles to eat him."<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>It wasn't until I read the translation that I understood you meant:<br>
"Torg was definitely not (born for tribbles to eat him)."<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I have the same trouble with {Hoch DaSopbe'chugh bath bIHeghbe'} so I apparently have trouble understanding {-be'} when it negates complex sentences.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>-- <br>
De'vID<o:p></o:p></p>
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