tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Oct 15 11:47:02 2013
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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Use of {net}
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>What he said. I totally missed the qatlh, having already hung up on the speaker evading making a statement directly. Klingon question words aren’t relative pronouns and if there were KSL classes the students would probably have to do rote little exercises where they converted sentences like:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>nuq Sop ra’wI’? –> Doch’e’ Sopbogh ra’wI’ vIngu’laHbe’.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>qatlh Sop ra’wI’?--> ra’wI’ SopmeH meq vIngu’laHbe’.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>ghorgh Sop ra’wI’? -> ra’wI’ SopmeH poH vIngu’laHbe’.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>nuqDaq Sop ra’wI’? --> ra’wI’ SopmeH Daq vIngu’laHbe’.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>chay’ Sop ra’wI’? --> ra’wI’ SopmeH mIw vIngu’laHbe’.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>‘Iv Sop ra’wI’? --> nuv’e’ Sopbogh ra’wI’ vIngu’laHbe’.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If Klingon survives its current elite little “you have to be smart enough to understand a language presented in the form of TKD to join our club” phase, we probably will have such things.<br><br>Whew? Where did that come from? Two places I think . One is that last night I was asked by a journalist about Klingon having “exercises”, something that by the context of the question was part of the qualifications of being a real language, and two I’m studying a language now that is dying out amongst the oral culture it has always lived in, and am frustrated seeing what are effectively watered down academic treatises masquerading as textbooks. But someone sent me a draft textbook today with a beautiful balance of grammar and communication, so I can relax.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>As you were.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Felix Malmenbeck [mailto:[email protected]] <br><b>Sent:</b> October 15, 2013 11:02 AM<br><b>To:</b> Fiat Knox; Klingon Mailing List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Use of {net}<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black;background:white'>> qatlh DujlIj'e' nIHta' ra'wI' net SIv<br><br></span></b><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black;background:white'>I don't believe this is correct; I read it as "One wonders if the commander has stolen your ship for what reason?"<br>I believe the only example we have of a question being used as an object is {nuq Datlhutlh DaneH?}, and here it's important to note that the whole two-sentence construction is also a question. "I know you want to drink, but what?"<br><br>For "One wonders why the commander has stolen your ship.", I'd go with something like {DujlIj nIHta'meH ra'wI' meq SIvlu'.} ("One wonders of the motivation for the commander to steal your ship."). However, as Qov mentions, one should be sure one truly means for the wonderers to be unspecified; in English, "one" is sometimes used as an alternative for "I", "we" or "you", but this tendency need not have a parallel in Klingon.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><div id=divRpF512192><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Fiat Knox [[email protected]]<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 15, 2013 19:17<br><b>To:</b> Alex Greene; Klingon Mailing List<br><b>Subject:</b> [Tlhingan-hol] Use of {net}</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'>I've been thinking about the use of <b>net</b> in a sentence.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'>The Klingon Dictionary has this to say about <b>net</b>:-<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'>When the verb of the second sentence has a third-person subject (that is, the pronominal prefix is 0) but the intended meaning is <i>one</i> or <i>someone</i>, rather than <i>he</i>, <i>she</i>, <i>it</i>, or <i>they</i>, <b>net</b> is used instead of <b>'e'</b>.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'>The Klingon Dictionary uses {<b>net</b>} in two example sentences:-<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'>qama'pu' DIHoH net Sov</span></b><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'> - <i>One knows we kill prisoners</i><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'><br><b>Qu'vaD lI' net tu'bej</b> One certainly finds it useful for the mission<br><br>I wonder. What other uses have you found for <b>net</b> in a sentence?<br><br>Would you, for instance, use <b>qatlh DujlIj'e' nIHta' ra'wI' net SIv</b> <i>One wonders why the Commander stole</i> your <i>ship</i><br><br>or <b>jagh Suvlu'DI' net taj jej lo'nIS; jagh HoSghaj Suvlu'DI' net to' jej lo'nIS</b> <i>When fighting an enemy, one must use a sharp blade; when fighting a powerful enemy, one must use sharp tactics</i> perhaps?<br><br>Tell me how you have used it, or why you have avoided it.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>_______________________________________________
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