tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Oct 15 11:47:02 2013

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Use of {net}

Robyn Stewart (robyn@flyingstart.ca) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']



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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>What he said. I totally missed the qatlh, having already hung up on the speaker evading making a statement directly. Klingon question words aren&#8217;t relative pronouns and if there were KSL classes the students would probably have to do rote little exercises where they converted sentences like:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>nuq Sop ra&#8217;wI&#8217;? &#8211;&gt; Doch&#8217;e&#8217; Sopbogh ra&#8217;wI&#8217; vIngu&#8217;laHbe&#8217;.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>qatlh Sop ra&#8217;wI&#8217;?--&gt; ra&#8217;wI&#8217; SopmeH meq vIngu&#8217;laHbe&#8217;.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>ghorgh Sop ra&#8217;wI&#8217;? -&gt; ra&#8217;wI&#8217; SopmeH poH vIngu&#8217;laHbe&#8217;.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>nuqDaq Sop ra&#8217;wI&#8217;? --&gt; ra&#8217;wI&#8217; SopmeH Daq vIngu&#8217;laHbe&#8217;.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>chay&#8217; Sop ra&#8217;wI&#8217;? --&gt; ra&#8217;wI&#8217; SopmeH mIw vIngu&#8217;laHbe&#8217;.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&#8216;Iv Sop ra&#8217;wI&#8217;? --&gt; nuv&#8217;e&#8217; Sopbogh ra&#8217;wI&#8217; vIngu&#8217;laHbe&#8217;.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If Klingon survives its current elite little &#8220;you have to be smart enough to understand a language presented in the form of TKD to join our club&#8221; phase, we probably will have such things.<br><br>Whew? Where did that come from? Two places I think . One is that last night I was asked by a journalist about Klingon having &#8220;exercises&#8221;, something that by the context of the question was part of the qualifications of being a real language, and two I&#8217;m studying a language now that is dying out amongst the oral culture it has always lived in, and am frustrated seeing what are effectively watered down academic treatises masquerading as textbooks. &nbsp;But someone sent me a draft textbook today with a beautiful balance of grammar and communication, so I can relax.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>As you were.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Felix Malmenbeck [mailto:felixm@kth.se] <br><b>Sent:</b> October 15, 2013 11:02 AM<br><b>To:</b> Fiat Knox; Klingon Mailing List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Use of {net}<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black;background:white'>&gt; qatlh DujlIj'e' nIHta' ra'wI' net SIv<br><br></span></b><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black;background:white'>I don't believe this is correct; I read it as &quot;One wonders if the commander has stolen your ship for what reason?&quot;<br>I believe the only example we have of a question being used as an object is {nuq Datlhutlh DaneH?}, and here it's important to note that the whole two-sentence construction is also a question. &quot;I know you want to drink, but what?&quot;<br><br>For &quot;One wonders why the commander has stolen your ship.&quot;, I'd go with something like {DujlIj nIHta'meH ra'wI' meq SIvlu'.} (&quot;One wonders of the motivation for the commander to steal your ship.&quot;). However, as Qov mentions, one should be sure one truly means for the wonderers to be unspecified; in English, &quot;one&quot; is sometimes used as an alternative for &quot;I&quot;, &quot;we&quot; or &quot;you&quot;, but this tendency need not have a parallel in Klingon.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><div id=divRpF512192><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Fiat Knox [fiat_knox@yahoo.co.uk]<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 15, 2013 19:17<br><b>To:</b> Alex Greene; Klingon Mailing List<br><b>Subject:</b> [Tlhingan-hol] Use of {net}</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'>I've been thinking about the use of <b>net</b> in a sentence.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'>The Klingon Dictionary has this to say about <b>net</b>:-<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'>When the verb of the second sentence has a third-person subject (that is, the pronominal prefix is 0) but the intended meaning is <i>one</i> or <i>someone</i>, rather than <i>he</i>, <i>she</i>, <i>it</i>, or <i>they</i>, <b>net</b> is used instead of <b>'e'</b>.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'>The Klingon Dictionary uses {<b>net</b>} in two example sentences:-<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'>qama'pu' DIHoH net Sov</span></b><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'> - <i>One knows we kill prisoners</i><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'><br><b>Qu'vaD lI' net tu'bej</b> One certainly finds it useful for the mission<br><br>I wonder. What other uses have you found for <b>net</b> in a sentence?<br><br>Would you, for instance, use <b>qatlh DujlIj'e' nIHta' ra'wI' net SIv</b> <i>One wonders why the Commander stole</i> your <i>ship</i><br><br>or <b>jagh Suvlu'DI' net taj jej lo'nIS; jagh HoSghaj Suvlu'DI' net to' jej lo'nIS</b> <i>When fighting an enemy, one must use a sharp blade; when fighting a powerful enemy, one must use sharp tactics</i> perhaps?<br><br>Tell me how you have used it, or why you have avoided it.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>
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