tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue May 28 07:10:28 2013

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] 'contamination' and <-Ha'choHmoH>

Robyn Stewart (robyn@flyingstart.ca) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']



"In order to control the contamination of the river" is so English. What does it mean?

bIQtIq wISay'Ha'choHbe'meH = in order for us to not contaminate the river (river currently clean)

bIQtIq wISay'Ha'be'choHmeH = in order for us change to not contaminating the river (implied that we're doing do now)

bIQtIq wISay'Ha'chu'taHmeH = in order that our contamination process proceed well (we're contaminating it on purpose, for some reason).

There are phrasings like bIQtIq wISay'Ha'moH 'e' wISeHmeH that could be used but I don't think that's what you're doing. 

Is there anything in your intended meaning not covered by: bIQtIq wISay'Ha'be'choHmeH qachvaD bIQ watlhmoHmeH pat wIjom. 

This somewhat implies that the building already exists and is currently contaminating the river. If it's a new building that will have the watlhmoHwI' from day one, then leave out -choH. 

Honestly: in Klingon if there is no pressing reason to create a noun, don't. 

- Qov


On 2013-05-28, at 0:55, Ruben Molina <rmolina@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 12:54 AM, Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca> wrote:
>>> Please note: <lamHa'choHmoH> instead of <lamHa'moH>. *why?*
>> lamHa'choHmoH - cause to become undirty
>> lamHa'moH - cause to be undirty, possibly by cleaning, possibly by not
>> getting dirty in the first place
> 
> That makes perfect sense. Thanks.
> 
>>> So, it should be: <lamHa'choHmoH> and <Say'Ha'choHmoH> yes?
>> 
>>> BTW, this is the only example I found in the form <-Ha'choHmoH> but there
>> are many <-descansa amorHa'moH>...
>>> And why not  <nuqDaq waqwIj vISay'moH> or <nuqDaq waqwIj vISay'choHmoH> ?
>> 
>> It might be an idiom. They would all be understandable, as would English,
>> "Where can I remove dirt from my shoes?" It's just not the normal way we ask
>> in English.
> 
> That makes sense too.
> 
>>> So, I assume <Say'Ha'choHmoH> works as 'to contaminate'
>> 
>> Yes.
>> 
>>> And then <Say'Ha'choHmoHghach> would be 'contamination'. yes?
>> 
>> But ask yourself why you want the noun. If it's to translate an English
>> expression that uses a noun, hen consider rephrasing to leave it as a verb.
> 
> Yes. I was previously pointed on this by QeS 'utlh.  In particular,
> even if <watlhmoHghach> could be parsed as "purification",
> <watlhmoHmeH patmey> is  a much better translation than <watlhmoHghach
> patmey> for "purification systems"..
> 
> Sometimes I have problems rephrasing my sentences.
> 
> I was thiinking on something like:
> 
> <bIQtIq Say'Ha'choHmoHghach wISeHnIS>
> "we need to control the contamination of the river"
> 
> and it could be changed into something like:
> 
> <Say'Ha'choH bIQtIq 'e' wISeHnIS>
> "the river is contaminated. we need to control that"

What are you controlling? Is control an issue here?

> 
> But how can I say something like:
> 
> <bIQtIq Say'Ha'choHmoHghach SeHmeH qachvaD bIQ watlhmoHghach pat wIjompu'>
> "in order to control the contamination of the river we installed a
> water purification system for the building"
> 
> ?
> 
> I can think on something like:
> 
> <bIQtIq Say'Ha'choHmoHmo' qach, bIQ watlhmoHmeH pat wIjompu'>
> "because the building contaminates the river, we  installed a system
> for the purpose of purify the water"
> 
> which is not exactly the same thing but could work...
> 
> But I still like the first one better...
> I need to keep trying...
> 
>>> Any difference between <lammoH> and  <Say'Ha'choHmoH>? Any difference
>> between <lammoHghach> and  <Say'Ha'choHmoHghach>?
>> 
>> lammoH = Cause to be dirty
>> Say'Ha'choHmoH = cause to become unclean
>> 
>> Probably not for most purposes.
>> 
>> You're doing very well. Good use of canon and logic. jumuvta'mo' jIQuchqu'.
>> 
>> - Qov
> 
> Qov qatlho' :)

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