tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu May 02 03:05:39 2013

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] questions on {-ghach} and {-meH}

Rohan Fenwick ( [KLI Member]

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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>ghItlhpu' ru'ben, jatlh:<br>&gt; Hi everyone,<br><div>&gt; I haven't tried to write anything in klingon in a long long time, so I<br>&gt; tried tonight and I got a few questions...<br><br>qajang jIH 'e' vInIDbej.<br><br>&gt; Although I have the impression that {-ghach} is not really recommended<br>&gt; (is that true?) I tried to use it anyway...<br><br>The thing about {-ghach} is that a lot of people try to translate word-for-word from English using it instead of using other grammatical tools that are probably better options. It's not that common that {-ghach} is genuinely the best choice. For instance, your {bIQ watlhmoHghach patmey} does mean "systems of water purification", but it doesn't have the idea of purpose: systems *for the purpose of* water purification. You could use a purpose clause in {-meH} instead. {bIQ watlhmoHmeH patmey} means "systems for the purpose of purifying water"; it explicitly carries that idea of purpose that's lacking from the version with {-ghach}.<br><br>taH:<br>&gt; {veQ boStaHghach Hemey 'oghtaH<br><br>"He/she/it is/they are devising garbage collection routes". Again, {veQ boSmeH Hemey} would be better, but it's understandable as it is.<br><br>&gt; 'ej qatlhDa'mey patmey je biQ watlhmoHghach patmey<br><br>This is where I start to have trouble. Literally, this means "the water purification systems of the conduits and systems". Remember that the possessor comes first: {patmey qatlhDa'mey} would be "conduits of the systems". Do you mean "conduits and systems of water purification systems"?<br><br>&gt; utlhtaH 'e' jonwI'pu' 'ampaSDaq vIghojta'}<br><br>{utlhtaH} is presumably a typo for {mutlhtaH}, so that's only minor. I can see what you were trying to express: I'm guessing "I have studied constructing [the stuff you talked about in the previous clause] at engineers' academy".<br><br>Remember that {'e'} is the object and so should come after the location in {-Daq}. According to TKD, you also shouldn't use an aspect suffix on a verb that has {'e'} as its object. So:  {jonwI' 'ampaSDaq 'e' vIghoj} "I learned that... (previous clause) at engineering school".<br><br>&gt; {veQ boStaHghach Hemey 'ogh 'ej qatlhDa'mey patmey je biQ atlhmoHghach<br>&gt; patmey mutlhmeH jonwI'pu' 'ampaSDaq jIqeqpu'}<br><br>Throughout, use first person subject prefixes where it's appropriate: you're talking about yourself, after all. For instance, {veQ boStaHghach Hemey vI'ogh} "I invent routes of garbage collection".<br><br>&gt; 2) Is {-meH} in the right place here? Should I put it on {'ogh}<br>&gt; instead? Should I put it in both verbs?<br><br>Yes, it should go on both verbs. For instance:<br><br>jIghojmeH 'ej jIqeqmeH 'ampaS vIjaH.<br>I go to school in order that I learn and in order that I train.<br><br>Notice that I've also used subject prefixes on the {-meH}-marked verbs here when they modify a main verb. (When they modify a noun, things get a bit more complicated.)<br><br>&gt; *) bonus question: Is there a commonly used expression for<br>&gt; "engineering"? I can imagine something like {jonwI' Qap} would do it,<br><br>"It succeeds the engineer"? No, probably not. As often in Klingon, it's a matter of finding something that works in context. In Trek "engineering" is often used as the name of a place, a shorthand for "engineering deck", in which case I find myself often using something like {jonwI' yaH} "engineer's duty station". As an abstract subject, perhaps {jonwI' Sov} "engineer's knowledge" or {jonwI' paQDI'norgh} "engineer's teachings" might do.<br><br>&gt; Thanks a lot,<br>&gt; ru'ben<br><br>qay'be'! qaboQpu'chugh jIbel.<br><br>&gt; PS: yep, I just put and apostrophe in my name, let's see... {ru'} be<br>&gt; temporary (n),<br><br>Note that {ru'} is a verb, not a noun.<br><br>&gt; {ben} years ago (n), ... uhmm... temporary since years<br>&gt; ago? like a permanent beta? or a cracked trial version? I like it.<br>&gt; lol.<br><br>"The years past are temporary." A deep philosophy. :)<br><br>QeS 'utlh<br></div> 		 	   		  </div></body>
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