tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Aug 31 11:12:22 2013

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: naj

Bellerophon, modeler ([email protected]) 

<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">So when used to present a direct quote, {jatlh} and {ja&#39;} are there for stage-setting. As with English /said/, they can come after the quote, though it helps avoid confusion to say {ja&#39;} or {jatlh} before a longer quote.<div>
<br></div><div>If the wiki is correct, then {lut vIja&#39;pu&#39;} wouldn&#39;t mean &quot;I told the story&quot; but rather &quot;I told him/her/them the story&quot;, as opposed to {lut qaja&#39;pu&#39;} or {lut Saja&#39;pu&#39;}. And {Dotlh yIja&#39;} would mean &quot;Report status to him!&quot; (apparently someone else needs that report) as opposed to {Dotlh HIja&#39;} &quot;Report status (to me)!&quot; I guess clipped would be simply {Dotlh ja&#39;}.</div>
<div><br></div><div><div>I&#39;m confused about indirect quotes. Acc. to TKD, neither {&#39;e&#39;} nor {net} is used with {jatlh} or {ja&#39;}. You don&#39;t say {*qama&#39;pu&#39; neH &#39;e&#39; jatlh la&#39;}, but if you say {qama&#39;pu&#39; neH jatlh la&#39;} what does it mean? &quot;The commander says (that) he wants prisoners&quot; or &quot;The commander says, &#39;He wants prisoners.&#39; &quot; A direct quote would be {jatlh la&#39; qama&#39;pu&#39; vIneH} (the commander says, &quot;I want prisoners&quot;), but speaking in someone else&#39;s voice in such a situation seems awkward and presumptuous, at least for English speakers.</div>
<div><br></div><div>~&#39;eD</div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 10:37 AM, David Trimboli <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]"; target="_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
On 8/30/2013 11:48 PM, Bellerophon, modeler wrote:<br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
Back to verb prefixes, I take it {jatlh} is the only verb that uses<br>intransitive prefixes when a direct object is specified (in the case<br>of {jatlh}, the direct quote).<br></blockquote><br>A direct quotation is never an object. {jatlh} CAN take an object, as in<br>
{SoQ vIjatlh} &quot;I speak the lecture; I give a lecture.&quot; The prefix of {jatlh} is the same as for any other verb.<br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
According to <a href="http://mughom.wikia.com/"; target="_blank">mughom.wikia.com</a> &lt;<a href="http://mughom.wikia.com/"; target="_blank">http://mughom.wikia.com</a>&gt; (who started<br>that anyway? I see some contributions by Qurgh, but a lot more by<br>
Anonymous), the object of {ja&#39;} is the addressee rather than the<br>direct quote, so one uses it thus: yaS vIja&#39; &lt;direct quote&gt;, rather<br>than yaS jIja&#39; &lt;direct quote&gt;.<br></blockquote><br>The possible objects of {ja&#39;} have never been clarified to my satisfaction. No examples of {ja&#39;} show an explicit object, but several use prefixes that indicate an object (e.g., {qaja&#39;pu&#39;} &quot;I told you&quot;). But I think it would be perfectly reasonable to use sentences like {lut vIja&#39;pu&#39;} &quot;I told the story&quot; or {Dotlh yIja&#39;} &quot;Report status!&quot; Does canon reflect a form of the prefix trick? Is the object of {ja&#39;} broad enough to reflect either a direct or indirect object? Or is that wiki correct and the object is always the party being told something, and that something can only ever be a direct quotation?<div class="">
<div id=":1vd" class="" tabindex="0"><img class="" src="https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif"; style=""></div></div><span class=""><font color="#888888"><br><br>-- <br>SuStel<br><a href="http://www.trimboli.name/"; target="_blank">http://www.trimboli.name/</a><br>
<br>______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br><a href="mailto:[email protected]"; target="_blank">[email protected]</a><br><a href="http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol"; target="_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/<u></u>listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a><br>
</font></span></blockquote><div><span class=""><br></span></div></div><span class="" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"></span></div><div class="gmail_extra">-- <br>My modeling blog:          <a href="http://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/"; target="_blank">http://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/</a><br>
My other modeling blog:  <a href="http://bellerophon.blog.com/"; target="_blank">http://bellerophon.blog.com/</a><br>

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