tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Jan 21 05:21:33 2012

Back to archive top level

To this year's listing

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]

Re: [Tlhingan-hol] nuq bop bom: 'ay' wa'vatlh wejmaH wej: <qama' mIwmey>

Lieven Litaer ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol ghojwI']

After re-reading this my own message, I am still not clearly convinced about what I wrote myself. Maybe somebody else does understand it, or can explain it better. This could just help the discussion.
I see the problem here, and it's difficult to explain, nor do I find the right words. It's surely something with this "causing" and also "direct/indirect object" which I do understand, but cannot explain. 

In english it also works that way:

The velwI' covers the floor.
He covers the floor with the carpet.
The carpet on the floor is covering it.

I see two meanings in this word:
a) what a person does when laying a carpet
    (a moving action, cover the floor)

b) what the carpet/blanket does on a floor/table
    (a static situation, cover the floor)

Only context will show what is meant.


From Marc's email it's clear that the carpet {vel}s the floor.

Correct.


*causes* the carpet to {vel} the floor, can they not be said to {velmoH} the
carpet to the floor, using an ordinary causative?


I agree with that, grammatically.
But I prefer to stick to the example we have. I don't know what MO's intention was, but why would he write this the way he did it? 
>>>>>>
To say "lay a carpet," one says "use a carpet to cover the floor," or {rav velmeH tlhIm lo'}. 
<<<<<<


Harry Potter magically causing the carpet to cover the floor isn't different
to making the carpet cover the floor in an ordinary mundane way. They're just
two different means of achieving the same action, aren't they?


Grmbl...mh..yes, bad example, ignore it ;-)


mInDu'lIj vIvel jIH. bIH vIvelmeH ghopwIj vIlo'.


Given the example of {rav vel tlhIm}, I'd have thought {bIH velmeH} "in order
that they [my hands] cover them" would be better.
I see your point, but it is "I" who am covering it, using my hands; adapting the right prefixes on the example: 
{rav   velmeH tlhIm   lo'}
{rav vIvelmeH tlhIm vIlo'}
But we are probably both right, since it is also my hands which are covering the eyes, it depends on which kind of cover you think. 

Lieven.


_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
[email protected]
http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol

Back to archive top level