tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Nov 03 09:57:44 2011
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Eurotalk - New Words - Shopping
Perhaps to Klingons, an anomalous plural suffix {-mey} immediately suggests the "scattered all around" idea, and not that the body part is being used metaphorically or poetically:
TKD 23f.: The suffix {-mey} cannot be used with body parts. It should be noted, however, that Klingon poets often violate this grammatical rule in order to evoke particular moods in their poetry. Thus, forms such as {tlhonmey} "nostrils scattered all about" do occur. Until the subtle nuances of such constructions are firmly grasped, however, it is suggested that students of Klingon stick to the rules.
Also, keep in mind that using {-mey} inappropriately - especially WRT inherently plural nouns - is a common error of children (and probably aliens too):
KGT 33: Another grammatical feature of Klingon about which children frequently become confused involves nouns that are inherently plural, such as cha (torpedoes) and {ngop} (plates [for eating]), as opposed to their singular counterparts {peng} (torpedo) and {jengva' (plate). Instead of using the special plural forms, children tend forms plurals of these words by simply adding the plural suffix {-mey} to the singular forms ({pengmey}, {jengva'mey}), as would be done with most other nouns (except for those referring to body parts or to beings capable of language, for which {-Du'} and {-pu'}, respectively, would be used), such as {yuQmey} (planets). Adults also add {-mey} to these nouns, but they do so to indicate that the items are scattered about ({jengva'mey}, "plates scattered all over the place"). For children who say {jengva'mey}, it apparently means simply "plates"; that is, it is nothing more than the plural form of {jengva'}. Children seem to be aware of the existence of the inherently plural forms, however, for they use them as well, though usually with the suffix {-mey} superfluously appended: {chamey} ("torpedoeses"), {ngopmey} ("plateses").
BTW, note that Klingon children apparently master the difference between {-mey}/{-pu']/{-Du'} before they fully understand the idea of inherently plural nouns.
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robyn Stewart [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 11:11 AM
>
> At 07:56 03/11/2011, you wrote:
> > >>> comb - jIb Ho'Du'
> >
> >Qov:
> > >> This makes me sad because I like to have the extra clarity of
> using
> > >> -mey when using a body part name to describe a non body part and
> it
> > >> looks like I'm wrong.
> >
> >qe'San:
> > > Possibly as this is a descriptive usage it's the way to go and as
> -mey
> > > on body parts implies all over the place you wouldn't want someone
> to
> > > think you wanted to decorate your hair with teeth you'd knocked
> out of
> > > an enemy ;-)
> >
> >Note Okrand's comment on {nevDagh} "type of pot with handles (used
> >for food preparation)" in KGT:
> >
> >KGT 97: The smaller {nevDagh} is characterized by its V-shaped
> >handles, termed {DeSqIvDu'} ("elbows"; note the {-Du'}, the plural
> >suffix for body parts is used here even though the handles are not
> >literally body parts).
>
> Yeah, but that was one and he pointed it out, so maybe it was an
> anomaly just for that pot, but now it's a pattern. I am probably also
> using plurals incorrectly when I say things like <nach DuQwI'Du'> for
> -- well you know, because I used the body parts suffix. Would you
> have had I not?
>
_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
[email protected]
http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol