tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Jan 22 15:16:18 2010

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Re: jatlh vs. ja'

MorphemeAddict ([email protected]) 

Voragh,
maQochneS.
I would say that both variants in that example are {ja'} with audience. The
fact that the spoken utterance is next to it is moot since it's a separate
sentence.
   {qaja'pu' HIqaghQo'} or {HIqaghQo' qaja'pu'}
   I told you not to interrupt me.

lay'tel SIvten
On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Steven Boozer <[email protected]>wrote:

> Quvar:
> >>> I do not intend to flatter you, but I also tend to use {ja'} more like
> >>> "report" or "tell a story", while {jatlh} is the "action of talking".
>
> SuStel:
> >>Specifically, {ja'} "tell, report" seems to refer to informing and
> >>ordering, while {jatlh} "speak, say" has a more general meaning of
> >>speech of any kind.
>
> lay'tel SIvten:
> >To me it's all about the kind of object I want the verb to have. If I
> >want to mention the audience spoken to (patient), I use {ja'}. If I
> >want to mention the spoken utterance or language itself (focus), then
> >I use {jatlh}.
>
> Both {ja'} and {jatlh} can be used for mentioning the spoken utterance.
>  Okrand writes in TKD (p. 67):
>
>  Similarly, with verbs of saying (say, tell, ask, etc.), {'e'} and
>  {net} are not used. The two phrases simply follow one another, in
>  either order:
>
>    {qaja'pu' HIqaghQo'} or {HIqaghQo' qaja'pu'}
>    I told you not to interrupt me.
>
>  This is literally, "I told you, 'Don't interrupt me!'" or "'Don't
>  interrupt me!' I told you."  [...] An aspect marker (here, {-pu'}
>  "perfective") may always be attached to the verb of saying,
>  regardless of whether it is the first or second verb.
>
>
> Voragh:
> |Finally, for those unfamiliar with the origin of {ja'}, marqoS tells
> |us that in ST3:
> |
> |  The Klingon is {qama'pu' jonta' neH!}; the original script had the
> |  English as "I told you: engine only!" ({qa-} "I/you"; *{ma'} "tell";
> |  {-pu'} "perfective"; {jonta'} "engine"; {neH} "only"), but it got
> |  rewritten in the subtitles to "I wanted prisoners! " ... The verb
> |  {ma'}, meaning "to tell", was changed to {ja'} to remove the ambi-
> |  guity of the sentence and make the substitution less obvious.
>
> Mutatis mutandis, this becomes a variant of the TKD example above:
>
>  qaja'pu' jonta' neH
>  "I told you: engine only!"
>
>
> ************************************************************************
> From: "Marc Okrand"
> Newsgroups: msn.onstage.startrek.expert.okrand
> Date: 29 Jun 1997
> Subject: Re: Some quick questions...
>
> Neal Schermerhorn wrote:
> > 1) Does qajatlh mean anything? Some feel this is poor grammar. I'm not
> > sure what to think. Can jatlh take an object other than a language?
>
> The object of {jatlh} "speak" is that which is spoken.  Thus, it's OK
> to say "speak a language," for example:
>
>    {tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh} "you speak Klingon"
>
> But it's also OK to say "speak an address, speak a lecture," for example:
>
>    {SoQ Dajatlh} "you speak an address" or, more colloquially,
>    "you deliver an address" or "you make a speech"
>
> To say simply:
>
>    {jatlh} "he/she speaks"
>
> implies "he/she speaks it," where "it" is a language or a lecture or
> whatever.
>
>   [... snip ...]
>
> There's another wrinkle to this.  The verb {jatlh} can also be used when
> giving direct quotations:
>
>    {tlhIngan jIH jatlh} "he/she says, 'I am a Klingon'"
>
>    {jatlh tlhIngan jIH} "he/she says, 'I am a Klingon'"
>
> (With verbs of saying, such as {jatlh}, the phrase that is being said or
> cited may come before or after the verb.)
>
> If the speaker is first or second person, the pronominal prefix indicating
> "no object" is used:
>
>    {tlhIngan jIH jIjatlh} "I say, 'I am a Klingon'"
>
>    {tlhIngan jIH bIjatlh} "you say, 'I am a Klingon'"
>
> There are instances where the pronominal prefix marks a big distinction in
> meaning:
>
>    {tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh} "you speak Klingon"
>
>    {tlhIngan Hol bIjatlh} "you say, 'Klingon language'"
>     [that is "you say the phrase 'Klingon language'"]
>
> ************************************************************************
>
>
> --
> Voragh
> Canon Master of the Klingons
>
>
>
>

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