tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Jan 21 08:55:21 2010

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RE: jatlh vs. ja'

Steven Boozer ([email protected]) 

SuStel:
>While we know that {jatlh} and {ja'} are the two "verbs of saying,"
>there has been little discussion about the difference between the two.
>Some people treat them as if they were interchangeable, and this has
>always bothered me, because I see two very different meanings.
>
>Specifically, {ja'} "tell, report" seems to refer to informing and
>ordering, while {jatlh} "speak, say" has a more general meaning of
>speech of any kind.
Quvar:
>> [...] I also tend to use {ja'}  more like "report" or "tell
>> a story", while {jatlh} is the "action of talking".

I think this is absolutely right.  One could thus say:

  reH jatlhtaH Humanpu' 'ach pagh luja'
  Humans are always talking but never say anything!

>If true, one would not expect to see, for instance, Quvar's recent
>sentence, {ja' tera'ngan, <naDevvo' vaS'a'Daq majaHlaH'a'?>} The Terran
>isn't informing the Klingon about anything or ordering him; he's asking
>for information. {jatlh} is required. On the other hand, the second
>sentence, {ja' tlhIngan, <lIchopbe'chugh ghewmey>} works because the
>Klingon is informing the Terran of the answer (there is an implied
>{HIja'} there). But if {jatlh} were used instead, it would still work.
>
>I'm not considering here what the correct object of {ja'} is. Okrand
>discussed {jatlh} in detail, 

Will Martin interviewed Marc Okrand (HQ 12 [1998]):

WM: "And a typical direct object of {ja'} would be the person
     addressed and a typical object of the verb {jatlh} would
     be the thing you say." 
MO: "The speech event." 


>but every use of {ja'} has been inconclusive in that regard.

For those interested, here's the list:

qaja'pu' HIqaghQo'
HIqaghQo' qaja'pu' 
I told you not to interrupt me. 
I told you, "Don't interrupt me!"
"Don't interrupt me!" I told you.  TKD 

yIja'Qo' 
Don't tell him! TKD

yIja''egh 
Tell yourself! TKD

peja''egh 
Tell yourselves! TKD

qaja' 
I tell you. TKD

qaja'pu' 
I told you. TKD

qaja'qang 
I am willing to tell you. TKD

nuja'rup 
They are prepared to tell us. TKD

HIja'neS 
Do me the honor of telling me. TKD

choja'chugh 
if you tell me TKD

choja'pa' 
before you tell me  TKD

choja'Qo'chugh 
if you won't tell me (if you refuse to tell me) TKD 

nuja' tlhIngan wIch ja'wI'pu' 
According to Klingon legend... S8
(lit. "Klingon legend tellers tell us...")

ja'chuqmeH rojHom neH jaghla' 
The enemy commander wishes a truce (in order) to confer. TKD 

maja'chuqjaj? 
[Uhh...] Can we talk? PK

'uQ wISoppu'DI' maja'chuq 
We will talk after dinner. PK


Finally, for those unfamiliar with the origin of {ja'}, marqoS tells us that in ST3:

  The Klingon is {qama'pu' jonta' neH!}; the original script had the
  English as "I told you: engine only!" ({qa-} "I/you"; *{ma'} "tell";
  {-pu'} "perfective"; {jonta'} "engine"; {neH} "only"), but it got
  rewritten in the subtitles to "I wanted prisoners! " ... The verb
  {ma'}, meaning "to tell", was changed to {ja'} to remove the ambi-
  guity of the sentence and make the substitution less obvious.

Holtej immediately noticed another of Okrand's jokes:

  And, of course, the addition of the verb {ma'} "accommodate". 
  So now, {qama'pu'} means "I have accommodated you", perhaps in a
  tongue-in-cheek swipe at Paramount by MO.



-- 
Voragh                          
Canon Master of the Klingons

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