tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Oct 31 12:58:04 2009

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Re: intuition and grammar (was Re: Ditransitive reflexives)

Tracy Canfield (toastrix@gmail.com)



I wouldn't say all the English examples are idiomatic - "They gave each
other chocolate" is literal, and potentially a problem if you translate it
with -vaD.
I'll send Chris an off-list catch-up.

2009/10/31 Christopher Doty <suomichris@gmail.com>

> I missed the first part of this discussion because I just joined the
> list (hello, btw!), but I'm not sure what the issue is here...  In
> English, all of the examples of ditransitive reflexives are
> essentially idiomatic (e.g., "I gave myself some time off" is really
> "I took some time off").  Likewise, something like "I bought myself a
> knife" is equal to "I bought a knife for myself," which would be
> easily rendered in Klingon, I believe (my first attempt at a Klingon
> sentence, please be nice!), as
>
> jIHvaD taj vIje'pu'
>
> The only place I can think of where a ditransitive wouldn't have a
> non-literal meaning would be a slave buying one's self from one's
> owner, a rather marginal situation...
>
> So, can I ask what the original question was regarding?  Namely, what
> was trying to be said? (Feel free to email me directly if you don't
> want to spam the list with repeat stuff...)
>
> Chris
>
> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 12:10, Doq <doq@embarqmail.com> wrote:
> > A second issue is that if we change the language too much, we
> > essentially create a dialect that someone else who studied Okrand's
> > materials would not understand. The Klingon Institute was not created
> > in order to create or foster non-standard dialects of the Klingon
> > language.
> >
> > Doq
> >
> > On Oct 31, 2009, at 1:34 PM, ghunchu'wI' wrote:
> >
> >> ja'pu' lay'tel SIvten:
> >>> It's safer to walk around a hole than to jump in. We don't know how
> >>> deep the
> >>> holes are, and they're difficult to illuminate.
> >>
> >> ja' clpachucki@comcast.net:
> >>> Yes, but if there's a problem, we need to fix it.  It would only be
> >>> the smart, right, and beneficial thing to do.  Fill the hole!
> >>
> >> It would be the presumptive and arrogant thing to do.
> >>
> >> We're just studying and using this language.  We lack the authority
> >> to change or add to its grammar.  In the fantasy context of Klingon
> >> being the language spoken by real Klingons, we don't have any
> >> information on what to fill the holes with.  We do have information
> >> telling us that some holes are true gaps in the language and not just
> >> gaps in our knowledge.
> >>
> >> motlh qay'be' SengHey.  Sengbe'.  qaD neH.  Hol yItI'Qo'.  Hol
> >> yIlo'qu'.
> >>
> >> -- ghunchu'wI'
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>






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