tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Oct 31 11:55:36 2009

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Re: Ditransitive reflexives

Doq (doq@embarqmail.com)



I'd like to suggest perhaps a different approach for some of this  
translation. In the first place, the translations all start in the  
same order as the original. We hold these truths... Which truths?  
Well, we haven't mentioned them yet because in English, the direct  
object follows the verb. Meanwhile, I'd recommend that in Klingon, we  
would mention the truths first and THEN hold them to be self-evident.

I'd also suggest that holding a truth to be self-evident is not to  
simply believe them to be true, as is suggested. I'd suggest that the  
truths need not be tested. 'e' tobnISbe' vay'.

What does it mean that all men are created equal? Does it mean that  
all men are the same? No. It means that no man is inferior.

What did he mean by saying that they are endowed by their Creator with  
certain unalienable rights? In Klingon cultural context, there is no  
creator. Yet, we can say that no one can remove certain rights from  
anyone.

The rights are the right to one's life, one's liberty and the right to  
pursue happiness (though not necessarily to find it -- he was a  
realist in this regard).

My point is not to encode the sentence, but to actually create a new  
expression of it. How do you say in Klingon what was said a couple  
centuries ago by one of our forefathers? How do you retain the power  
and poetry of the original expression?

yInmeH DIb ghaj Hoch. tlhabmeH DIb ghaj Hoch. QuchmeH Qu' DIb ghaj  
Hoch. DIbmeyvam teqlaH pagh. QIv pagh nuv. moch pagh nuv. teHba'mo'  
vItmeyvam lutobnISbe'lu'.

Please weigh this against other submissions and then take whatever you  
find to be best from it to bring it to the form you believe to most  
powerfully express the original meaning.

I like that in Klingon, it is even more concise. I'd also love to  
speak these words or hear them spoken powerfully, as if a speech to an  
empassioned crowd.

Doq

On Oct 27, 2009, at 5:11 PM, Doug Wilder wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm looking for an accurate translation into Klingon of the following:
> "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created  
> equal,
> that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable  
> rights, that
> among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
>
> I tried Mr. Klingon but am not confident that the translation is  
> accurate.
>
> Can anyone on this list help?
>
> Thanks much,
>
> D. Wilder
>
>
>







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