tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Oct 29 11:07:10 2009

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Re: intuition and grammar (was Re: Ditransitive reflexives)

clpachucki (clpachucki@comcast.net)



I don't know of anyone who has but a full blown investigation into the Klingon language would be very beneficial for it's speakers. 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "eric mead" <emead@hotmail.com> 
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org 
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:50:26 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
Subject: RE: intuition and grammar (was Re: Ditransitive reflexives) 

  

  

I share Andre's sentiment, and I was wondering if anyone has ever done a full-blown linguistic analysis of the more fluent speakers of Klingon?? 

  

At some point, I imagine it will be relevant to 'analyze' the language as it has come to be used. Anyone tried? 

  

-ERIC 


  
> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 18:55:41 +0100 
> Subject: Re: intuition and grammar (was Re: Ditransitive reflexives) 
> From: esperantist@gmail.com 
> To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org 
> 
> 2009/10/28 <clpachucki@comcast.net> 
> > If speakers are allowed to add their own grammar into the language, 
> > doesn't that defeat the purpose of speaking the native language of the 
> > Klingons? I don't know if I should be saying anything considering my n00b 
> > status but I just couldn't help but seeing that. I know that in any other 
> > language grammar is set in stone and never changed. 
> > Just my two cents 
> > 
> 
> Quite the contrary actually. No grammar is really "set in stone" (in the 
> sense of 'may not change over time'). Grammar (as well as the lexicon and 
> the semantics) in natural languages changes over time, due to speakers 
> introducing new habits, stopping using certain forms or making "mistakes", 
> which spread and get grammaticalized sometimes. Some of these changes we can 
> notice ourselves. 
> The only languages with a grammar "set in stone" that I could think of, 
> would be constructed ones. Not Klingon, as Okrand adds stuff to it (not much 
> and not too often, but still once in a while). Not Esperanto, as it has 
> changed a little since its invention too... but those two languages' 
> grammars get close to be "set in stone". 
> 
> So in Klingon, speakers (with the exception of Marc Okrand) are not allowed 
> to change the grammar or to introduce new words, although there's no one 
> really to punish them. ;) 
> 
> Prescriptive grammars in natural languages such as English or German are 
> merely a snapshot of the grammar currently used by the majority of the 
> people... and sometimes (at least for the German Duden grammar) it's partly 
> obsolete and should be updated to reflect the modern grammar of the 
> language. 
> 
> Just my two (Euro-)cents. :) 
> - Andr� 
> 
> 
                                                
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