tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Nov 27 08:16:38 2009

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Re: The topic marker -'e'

Christopher Doty (suomichris@gmail.com)



But (I think; my German ain't great) "ein Messer für ihn" is fine; it
doesn't need a verb to be correct.

On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 00:55, André Müller <esperantist@gmail.com> wrote:
> I thought the problem was the claim that {ghaHvaD taj} is ungrammatical (is
> it?), because a noun with {-vaD} cannot work as a mere attribute to another
> noun. In the same way, in German "ihm ein Messer" (him a knife) doesn't
> work, because it cannot be a noun phrase. It always needs a sentence (and
> thus a verb).
> This is what I thought was the claim. I dunno if that's really what's going
> on.
>
> - André
>
> 2009/11/27 Christopher Doty <suomichris@gmail.com>
>
>> I'm not sure exactly what I meant there (I blame the relatives again),
>> but I think it was this.
>>
>> The difference between "a for him knife" and "a knife for him" in
>> English is that the first one is ungrammatical: "for him" can't be an
>> adjective.  We see the same thing in Klingon (from my perspective):
>> <ghaHvaD taj> is fine ("a knife for him"), but <taj ghaHvaD> is bad: a
>> noun with -vaD can't go after a noun to modify it, as a verb of
>> quality/quantity could.  You have to put it before the noun.  But,
>> it's also expressly not part of a noun-noun construction.
>>
>> I dunno, I am full of food and feel like we're at a dead end here.  I
>> still just don't see how <ghaHvaD taj> and the like is a problem, and
>> I haven't seen anything here that convinces me otherwise.
>>
>> Do you think <ghaHvaD taj 'oH> is bad as well?
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 18:19, Mark J. Reed <markjreed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Indeed.  How can it be read any other way but "for him" modifying
>> > "knife"?  Certainly that's how you'd diagram the phrase in English: an
>> > adjectival prepositional phrase modifying "knife".  (With some context
>> > it could be adverbial instead, modifying something else...)
>> >
>> > On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 9:14 PM, David Trimboli <david@trimboli.name>
>> wrote:
>> >> Christopher Doty wrote:
>> >>> It's not, e.g., 'a for-him knife', it's 'a knife for him.'
>> >>
>> >> What's the difference?
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> SuStel
>> >> tlhIngan Hol MUSH
>> >> http://trimboli.name/mush
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Mark J. Reed <markjreed@gmail.com>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>






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