tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Jun 26 04:47:59 2009

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Re: Klingon IPA chart

steve . weaver (steve.weaver@att.net)



*sigh*
I would love to read the pdf file, but I keep getting "Damaged File" errors...."fan" disruption? Maybe my level of Acrobat? Can you "downgrade" to something 5.0 or lower?
-------------- Original message from Michael Everson <everson@evertype.com>: -------------- 


> On 26 Jun 2009, at 01:06, ghunchu'wI' wrote: 
> 
> > On Jun 25, 2009, at 5:55 PM, Michael Everson wrote: 
> > 
> >> http://www.evertype.com/standards/csur/tlh/klingon-ipa.pdf 
> > 
> > "...[É?] is a slang variant of [u]." I think you might be referring 
> > to the {qUlegh} example from KGT page 139. The vowel being relaxed 
> > is {a}, not {u}. 
> 
> Ah yes, that was a hypercorrection since Okrand writes it U. Thanks. 
> 
> > And it's not a "slang" variant, it's a lazy and incorrect one. :) 
> 
> Laziness and incorrectness betoken "slang". I could say "informal". 
> 
> > If you wish to represent childish speech, you should include the 
> > voiced variant of {j}, 
> 
> You mean "the fricative {zh} variant of {j}". 
> 
> > the more "k"-ish version of {q}, 
> 
> "the velar {k} variant of {q}" 
> 
> > and the "nyet"-like pronunciation of syllable-initial {ng}, all 
> > described on KGT page 32. 
> 
> "the palatal {ɲ} variant of syllable-initial {Å?}"; you missed out 
> "the alveolar {n} variant of syllable-final {Å?}" and "the affricate 
> {ch} variant of syllable-final {tlh}". 
> 
> I'm not sure that child phonemes belong in the chart, though they do 
> belong in the description. 
> 
> > "In Morskan dialect, [É£l] is an initial and medial, and [ts] a final, 
> > variant of [tɬ]." What do you mean by "medial"? 
> 
> In the middle of a word between two vowels. I was thinking that 
> {tlhutlh} 'drink', Morskan {ghluts} would be {jItlhutlh}, {jIghluts}. 
> I suppose that I considered that {jItlhutlh'a'} would be Morskan 
> {jIghluts'a'} (and not *{jIghlughl'a'} because -'a' begins with a 
> consonant. 
> 
> I think on reflection that there's only one way to know whether the 
> distrubution if {ghl} is syllable-initial or initial/medial would be 
> to know whether {chatlhoy} 'soupkin' (KGT p. 201) would be realized in 
> Morskan as {chatsoy} or {chaghloy}. Okrand describes the distribution 
> of {ghl} and {ts} in terms of morpheme boundaries, but the sound 
> change would be effectuated in terms of the phonological environment. 
> Since the prefixes all end in vowels, it is possible to describe this 
> as (V)tlhV -> (V)ghlV in Morskan; {chaghloy} would fit into this 
> pattern. 
> 
> Could you please ask Marc Okrand to clarify this point? It is beyond 
> obscure, I know... 
> 
> > KGT page 22 says that the variation depends on whether the sound is 
> > at the beginning or end of a syllable, not of a word. The only 
> > thing in the middle of a Klingon syllable is a vowel. 
> 
> See above. 
> 
> > You've ignored the untrilled "r" in the consonant cluster {rgh} at 
> > the end of some syllables. I mention it because your chart notes 
> > seem to be striving for completeness of description. 
> 
> Can you point me to Okrand's description of this? I couldn't find it. 
> 
> > I thought "h" was a fricative, not an affricate. 
> 
> As indeed are x and ɣ. Pasting error. 
> 
> > I'm only going to say this once: Klingon does not have diphthongs 
> > as distinct phonemes. 
> 
> Well, it does have limitations on which pairs are found (no *ow, no 
> *uw). Indeed he gives a whole section of these in the section on 
> vowels, which is just where one would expect to find diphthongs 
> described. So I am not sure why you are so adamant that Klingon does 
> not have diphthongs. 
> 
> It appears that the analysis of the diphthongs is VC('), and that 
> apart from {'} other *VyC and *VwC combinations do not occur. 
> 
> By the way, Okrand transcribes the voiceless [w] as {Hw} which would 
> be [xw]; I have transcribed it as [Ê?] because that is what I have 
> heard in actual use. 
> 
> I have uploaded a revised chart at 
> http://www.evertype.com/standards/csur/tlh/klingon-ipa.pdf 
> 
> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/ 
> 
> 




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