tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jun 01 21:58:20 2009

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Re: -qa' with -taH

Brent Kesler (brent.of.all.people@gmail.com) [KLI Member]



On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 7:09 AM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:
>
>>Consider:
>>- {yIjunqa'} execute an evasive maneuver again!
>
> "Execute another evasive maneuver! [Do it again!]"
>
>>- {yIjunqa'taH} keep executing evasive maneuvers again! (?)
>
> Based on TKD 42, I would think {-qa]} is redundant: {yIjuntaH} "Keep executing evasive maneuvers!
> [until we destroy that petaQ!]"

Yeah, but I think that's the nature of {jun} rather than anything
about {-qa'taH}. {junqa'} is a single discrete action. {juntaH} is one
long continuous action or many discrete actions joined into one
continuous process. My theory is that {junqa'taH} can only mean many
discrete actions joined into a continuous process. {juntaH} includes
{junqa'taH}.

The issue of discrete actions shows itself in the difference between
{-taH} and {-lI'}:
- {qaStaHvIS wa' rep, lojmIt luveghtaH ghot} For one hour, people kept
coming through the door.
- {qaStaHvIS wa' rep, lojmIt luveghlI' ghot} I took people one hour to
go through the door.

In the first sentence, I imagine a continuous stream of people walking
through an open door. In the second sentence, I imagine a bunch of
people lined up outside the door, like at a movie theater, then once
it opens, it takes one hour for all of them to get through. For the
person inside the door checking tickets, both sentences describe the
same thing; {luveghtaH} includes {luveghlI'}. He can see it as many
discrete entries over one hour, or one long entry over the course of
an hour. But the guy at the end of the line doesn't see the constant
stream of people that the ticket guy sees. He just sees one long line
slowly progressing towards the goal of getting everyone into the
theater. For him, there's only {luveghlI'}, one discrete action
unfolding over time.

How does this apply to {-qa'taH}?
- {qaStaHvIS wa' rep, tIH bachtaH} He fired the beam for one hour.
- {qaStaHvIS wa' rep, tIH bachqa'taH} He fired the beam over and over
again for one hour. (?)

Maybe in the first sentence he fired the beam over and over again, but
he could have simply pulled the trigger for one hour in one continuous
action (perhaps the beam is being used in a mining operation?). In the
second sentence, I think {-qa'} forces {bach} to be a discrete action,
so {bachqa'taH} is many discrete actions over a continuous period of
time. {bachtaH} includes {bachqa'taH}.

> Just to throw this into the mix... consider these lines from the Anthem (Qoy qeylIS puqloD):
>
>  batlh maHeghbej 'ej yo' qIjDaq vavpu'ma' DImuv.
>  pa' reH maSuvtaHqu'
>  Then we die with honor and join our fathers in the
>   Black Fleet where we battle forever.   (Anthem)
>
>  mamevQo'.  maSuvtaH.  ma'ov.
>  Battling on through the eternal fight.  (Anthem)
>
> Does this imply one eternal never-ending battle in the Afterlife (no one wins, no one loses) or an
> eternal series of battles (you win some, you lose some)?  Or both?

I think it implies both, but {maSuvqa'taH} could only imply an eternal series.

bI'reng






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