tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Nov 19 07:37:12 2007
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Re: suffixes on adjectival verbs
Voragh:
> > It's likely that Okrand considered {-be'} such an obviously useful and
> > common suffix that he forgot that he had inadvertently disallowed it.
Qang qu'wI':
>This is not 100% what I wanted to hear, but it'll do (I think). Looking
>through the list that you provided, I think the only true counter-example
>is:
>
> wa'maH yIHmey lI'be'
> ten useless tribbles. CK
>
>For reasons unknown to me, my tlhIngan Hol mu'ghom has {motlhbe'} as it's
>own entry, so this one isn't really a strong counter-example:
>
> tera'ngan motlhbe' SoH
> You are an unusual Terran. PK
Doq wrote:
>motlhbe' is in the original TKD word list.
True, but {motlhbe'} "be unusual" is not a separate verb. IOW you cannot
add {-be'} and say *{motlhbe'be'} "not be unusual". It was included simply
to make it easy for the average non-linguist Star Trek fan who wanted to
look up "unusual".
A similar question came up on startrek.klingon (Nov. 30, 1997) WRT suffixed
forms listed in TKD and the order of additional suffixes. Okrand wrote:
>Neal wrote...
> >Are entries in the dictionaries which are verbs with an attached
> >suffix, such as <chenmoH>=create (v) and <ja'chuq>=discuss (v),
> >words in themselves? Or are they merely examples of usage, as
> >I suspect? (With the exception of <lo'laH>.) [....]
>
>It is, of course, possible to add the suffix {-moH} to lots of verbs;
>not all of the verb + {-moH} combinations are listed in the Dictionary
>as distinct entries. The ones that are listed are there as much as a
>matter of convenience for the user as anything else. For example, there
>is an entry for "commit suicide" just in case anyone wants to look that
>word up; but the Klingon equivalent is simply {HoH'egh}, literally "kill
>oneself" ({HoH} "kill" plus Type 1 verb suffix {-'egh} "oneself"). The
>absence of a verb + {-moH} entry in the Dictionary lists does not mean
>that that particular formation cannot be made.
>
>The same goes for the negative suffixes {-Ha'} and {-be'} which, along
>with {-moH}, are the most common verb suffixes found in the Dictionary
>lists (except for {-wI'} "one who is/does," but that doesn't enter into
>any of this since it's always last in a string of verb suffixes). Since
>the negative suffixes are Rovers, they follow different rules. [...] The
>Rover {-be'} comes right after whatever it is negating. Both {Qochbe'nIS}
>"he/she/they need to not disagree" (that is, "he/she/they need to agree")
>and {QochnISbe'} "he/she/they do not need to disagree" are acceptable
>Klingon formations. The fact that the Dictionary lists {Qochbe'} "agree"
>(that is, literally, "not disagree") does not mean that no suffix may
>precede the {-be'}. It's in there so that someone can easily look up
>how to say "agree."
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons