tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Nov 14 13:47:38 2007
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Re: jop 'ej way'
Quvar:
>>Source: KGT p. 115: Idioms, nr. 12: jop 'ej way'
>>
>> "In using the the expression, the appropriate verbal affixes are
>> attached: for example, {wIjoppu' 'ej wIway'pu'} ("We have lunged
>> and we have deflected") -- that is, "We have had an argument")."
>>
>>a) What is the object of this wI-? Maybe the sword, but this not mentioned
>>in the english > translation.
>>
>>b) Or is this a mistake? like somwhere else is written {wI'oj} meaning "we
>>are thirsty."
Jon:
>{jop} means lunge or thrust. In fencing, a lunge is a type of step directed
>toward the opponent and in English would not take an object. Though,
>implicitly, a lunge includes a thrust, and you might say "I lunged with my
>dagger". A thrust is the action of moving the blade towards the opponent,
>and the object would be the weapon.
>
>So I guess {vIjop} means "I thrust it", "it" being my weapon. {DIjop} would
>be "We thrust them" (our weapons). {wIjop} is "We thurst it"; which does not
>make sense in English (unless the weapon is something huge like a battering
>ram).
>
>{way'} means parry or deflect a lunge. So {vIway'} would mean "I parry it"
>and the object would be either the opponent's thrust or the opponent's
>weapon. In boxing or karate a parry would be made with the arm or leg.
>{wIway'} would be "We parry it", which again does not make much sense in
>English.
{wIjoppu' 'ej wIway'pu'} seems to show the beginning stage of what may
eventually become simply {jop 'ej way'}. Of course, we cannot clip the
idiom ourselves:
To understand an idiom, one must learn the phrase as a whole. In using
an idiom, one must repeat it exactly; paraphrases will be interpreted
literally, not in the idiomatic sense.
Since Klingons are just as likely to have an argument as fight with
bat'leths, they may have retained the prefixes in order to differentiate
the idiom from the more literal interpretation:
When teaching someone to use the bat'leth, the tutor will shout out
movements--for example, {yIjop! yIway'}! ("Lunge! Defend!"). Generally
in such a situation, however, the tutor will used the shortened form
of the language known as Clipped Klingon and skip the imperative prefix
{yI-}, leaving only the bare verb: {jop! way'}! It is important to note
that the tutor is giving the student direct commands ("Lunge! Defend!"),
not shouting out the names of movements. [KGT 59]
BTW I stumbled upon another ritualized Clipped Klingon command in KGT:
When the parties [to a duel] are ready, a third party, sort of a
referee, says {moq}, the signal to begin. The verb {moq} literally
means "beat" and it is a clipped form of, perhaps, {vImoq} ("I beat
it") or even {vImoqpu'} ("I have beaten it"). In times past, one
would hit something (such as a drum) with a stick to indicated the
start of the duel; today, one simply says the word "beat". [p.69]
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons