tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Jan 29 23:05:52 2006
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Re: Klingon phonotactics (was Re: Klingon at the Thanksgiving table - A month la
At 10:29 PM +1000 1/27/06, QeS 'utlh wrote:
> ghItlhpu' Russ, jatlh:
>> Okay, so we only know of {jaw} and {-oy}, meaning that, to the best
>> of our knowledge, we need not worry about how {jaw'oy} would be
>> pronounced, because it simply can't happen.
> Only from a cultural point of view, not from a grammatical one.
No, I meant that we don't have a {jaw'} word to apply {oy} too, nor
a suffix {'oy} to apply to {jaw}, so ?{jaw'oy} can't exist. But of
course, it might -- Maltz may simply not have reported them yet.
And of course, this assumes that the {'} between vowels would only
be pronounced, not written. If it WERE written, then I recant the
above.
>ghItlhpu' Philip, ja':
>> For that reason, whether {w} in {aw} is a vowel or not is important
>> in determining what the diminutive of {jaw} would be -- if it were a
>> vowel, then {jawoy} would be an invalid word, since the second
>> syllable does not begin with a vowel, and (by TKD's guess) the word
>> would have to be {jaw'oy} instead. If, on the other hand, the {w} in
>> {jaw} is a consonant, then {jawoy} is legal, while {jaw'oy} would be
>> something different.
> jang Russ, ja':
>> I think the mention of the insertion of a {'} consonant pretty
>> much indicates that the {w} is part of a diphthong and definitely
>> NOT a consonant -- why would it NEED the {'} if it was?
> You misunderstand Philip: {jaw} is not given as an example in TKD; it
> was one I provided.
No, I know it wasn't an example in TKD. And I don't think I misunderstood
him either. But I'm speculating that even if the word was pronounced
?{jaw'oy}, it would still be written as {jawoy}. I think simply we
don't know enough about the diphthongs and how they combine in a case
like {jaw} + {oy}.
> ja'taH:
>> But even then, the {aw} part would be pronounced the same way,
>> essentially as a diphthong, I assume.
> Ay, there's the rub: are we talking phonetically or phonologically? {{:)
You may have stepped above my linguistic knowledge again.
> Phonologically, {w} and {j} pattern as consonants, even if phonetically
> they may generate diphthongs for some speakers.
I don't understand the use of "pattern" there... But basically
you're saying we REALLY need to ask Maltz about {jawoy} type
combinations, is that right? :-)
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