tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Jan 27 04:30:09 2006
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Re: Klingon phonotactics (was Re: Klingon at the Thanksgiving table - A month la
- From: "QeS 'utlh" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: Klingon phonotactics (was Re: Klingon at the Thanksgiving table - A month la
- Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 22:29:43 +1000
- Bcc:
ghItlhpu' Russ, jatlh:
>Okay, so we only know of {jaw} and {-oy}, meaning that, to the best
>of our knowledge, we need not worry about how {jaw'oy} would be
>pronounced, because it simply can't happen.
Only from a cultural point of view, not from a grammatical one. (That being
said, I read an article recently on the Tsova-Tush language in which one
native speaker categorically rejected a sentence as "ungrammatical" because
it referred to a female performing a task traditionally done by men!)
tlhob, ja':
>But are there other possibilities?
Definitely. KGT tells us that body parts are popular sources of diminutive
nicknames. {Somraw} "muscle" could well be a source of such a name, and due
to the association of muscle with strength (which Klingons might well share
with Terrans), it may thus be doubly appropriate for a Klingon {bang pong}.
{Somrawoy} or {Somraw'oy}? I think the former, personally.
ghItlhpu' Philip, ja':
>For that reason, whether {w} in {aw} is a vowel or not is important
>in determining what the diminutive of {jaw} would be -- if it were a
>vowel, then {jawoy} would be an invalid word, since the second
>syllable does not begin with a vowel, and (by TKD's guess) the word
>would have to be {jaw'oy} instead. If, on the other hand, the {w} in
>{jaw} is a consonant, then {jawoy} is legal, while {jaw'oy} would be
>something different.
jang Russ, ja':
>I think the mention of the insertion of a {'} consonant pretty
>much indicates that the {w} is part of a diphthong and definitely
>NOT a consonant -- why would it NEED the {'} if it was?
You misunderstand Philip: {jaw} is not given as an example in TKD; it was
one I provided.
ja'taH:
>But even then, the {aw} part would be pronounced the same way,
>essentially as a diphthong, I assume.
Ay, there's the rub: are we talking phonetically or phonologically? {{:)
Phonologically, {w} and {j} pattern as consonants, even if phonetically they
may generate diphthongs for some speakers. (When I'm speaking Klingon
forcefully, I find that I produce true approximants even syllable-finally.
Other speakers may not close off the airstream quite as much, which would
produce diphthongs.)
Savan,
QeS 'utlh
tlhIngan Hol yejHaD pabpo' / Grammarian of the Klingon Language Institute
not nItoj Hemey ngo' juppu' ngo' je
(Old roads and old friends will never deceive you)
- Ubykh Hol vIttlhegh
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