tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Dec 18 12:04:27 2006
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Re: Return With Honour
- From: Doq <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: Return With Honour
- Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 15:05:33 -0500
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- In-reply-to: <[email protected]>
- References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
On Dec 18, 2006, at 12:55 PM, ...Paul wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Dec 2006, Doq wrote:
>> qatlh potlh mu' <<bIcheghDI'>>? mu'tlhegh yInapmoH:
>>
>> batlhlIj potlh law' yInlIj potlh puS.
>>
>> bItlheDDI' teH. bIDachtaHvIS teH. bIcheghDI' teH. reH teHtaH.
>
> nuq DamughmeH bInID?
tlhIngan vav qech vImugh. tlhoy mu'mey natlh tera'nganpu'. pIj <<'e'
vIHar>> jatlh. vay' DaHarbe'chugh, Dajatlhbe'ba', qar'a'? toH! qatlh
<<'e' vIHar>> Dajatlh? jatlhtaHvIS tera'nganpu' mu'mey 'Iq luQoylu'.
maw' tera'ngan. vuvlaHbe' tlhInganpu'.
> Damughchu' DaneHchugh, yapbe' mu'tlheghvetlh.
vaj mughchu'meH tlhoy mu'mey 'Iq DanatlhnIS 'e' DaHar. wejpuH.
> mu'tlhegh wa'DIch rurbogh qech'e' neH Damugh DaneHchugh, yap
> mu'tlheghvetlh.
qech potlh law' mu' potlh puS.
> What are you trying to translate? If you want to translate it
> perfectly,
> that sentence is insufficient. If you want to translate only an idea
> similar to the first sentence, that sentence is sufficient.
>
>> On Dec 17, 2006, at 12:49 PM, Alan Anderson wrote:
>>> ja' naHQun:
>>>> "I'd rather you come home in a coffin, then come home
>>>> dishonoured.".
>>> bIcheghDI' lom quv qaq law' loD quvHa' qaq puS.
>
> It comes down to the question of how exactly you want to translate
> something. There are a number of Klingon phrases, I'm sure, that
> convey
> the same kind of sense as the original quote -- but the intention
> was to
> try to use the poetic imagery, which is not present in existing
> phrases
> (or in your translation). Let's take a simpler, similar phrase: "You
> will return in a coffin." There are plenty of ways to translate this:
>
> bIHegh -- "You will die."
>
> Short, sweet, conveys the same ultimate meaning, but lacks, for a
> better
> word, "panache".
>
> DaHoHlu' -- "You will be killed."
>
> Short, sweet, probably more precise when talking about a warrior
> going to
> battle... But again, lacks panache.
>
> chegh lomlIj neH -- "Only your corpse will return."
>
> Now we've got some poetry going, the intention is much closer to the
> original, but it's still not a literal translation.
>
> lom ngaSwI'Daq bIchegh -- "You will return in a coffin."
lom ngaSwI' lulo'Qo' tlhInganpu'. lI'be'. lommey SaHtaH tera'nganpu'
neH.
tlhInganpu'vaD veQ 'oH lom'e'. Dach qa'. ram. ngaSwI'Daq lom lanbe'
tlhInganpu'. chaq He'So' 'e' mevmeH lom mollu'.
molpa' lomvo' nuHmey Datlhap. ghIq Heghpu'bogh SuvwI'pu' DaghuHmoHmeH
DajachnIS. Sumchugh juHlIj He'So'be'meH lom DamolnIS. Sumchugh jagh
juH, yImolQo'.
> Assuming /lom ngaSwI'/ is a suitable phrase for 'coffin', this is a
> very
> literal translation of the original.
>
> All four (and I'm sure there are more we can come up with) are "valid"
> translations, but they span a range from "recast to simplicity" to
> "literal translation". Klingon is often succinct -- but not
> always. One
> would argue, why say:
>
> qaStaHvIS wa' ram loS SaD Hugh SIjlaH qetbogh loD.
>
> when you could just say:
>
> nuv law' vIHoHlaH.
pImchu' chovnatlhmeyvam. <<qaStaHvIS wa' ram loS SaD Hugh SIjlaH
qetbogh loD>> qaja'DI' qaqeS. <<nuv law' vIHoHlaH>> qaja'DI' jImIy neH.
> Poetry. :)
>
> ...Paul
>
> ** ...Paul, [email protected], Insane Engineer **
> ** Visit Project Galactic Guide http://www.galactic-guide.com/ **
> "I used to be confused, but now I'm just not sure."
Doq