tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Apr 21 07:30:09 2006
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Re: qep'a' (was Re: On a more humerous note)
Shane MiQogh:
> >I still don't understand why mu- would be wrong... The subject would
> >be they/them and i would be the object. So i don't understand why
> >mu- would be wrong...
QeS:
>As I said, I believe {mu-} would be wrong because the apparent suffix
>{-chuq} "each other" of the verb {nga'chuq} requires that the verb *not*
>take an object prefix. Reread TKD section 4.2.1. There, it says that only
>the "no-object" prefixes can generally be used with the verb suffixes
>{-'egh} and {-chuq}. {nga'chuq} isn't glossed as "have sex *with*", but
>"perform sex".
IOW {nga'chuq} is intransitive (i.e. it doesn't take an object). Due to
Okrand's awkward wording - was he embarrassed? - the proper use of {ngagh}
and {nga'chuq} has been frequently debated on this list, but QeS is giving
you the consensus. Here's TKD p.36 again:
This suffix is used only with plural subjects. It is translated
"each other" or "one another". The prefix set indicating "no
object" is also used when this suffix is used:
{maqIpchuq} "we hit each other"
{SuqIpchuq} "you (plural) hit each other"
{qIpchuq} "they hit each other"
{peqIpchuq} "hit each other!"
Some more examples of how the reciprocal suffix {-chuq} works:
ja'chuqmeH rojHom neH jaghla'
The enemy commander wishes a truce (in order) to confer. TKD
maja'chuqjaj?
Can we talk? PK
'uQ wISoppu'DI' maja'chuq
We will talk after dinner. PK
ghobchuq loDnI'pu'
"The Brothers Battle One Another" KCD
Hay'chuq
They duel one another. KGT
Hay'chuqchu'
They duel one another to the death. KGT
ngeQchuq tera'nganpu'
The Terrans collide with each other. (KGT 158)
pujchuqmoH
they weaken each other (st.klingon 11/97)
>And even if {-chuq} is actually part of the verb root rather than a type 1
>suffix, HolQeD 1:3 explicitly says "always subject", which indicates to me
>that the verb probably doesn't take an object under normal circumstances. If
>you wanted to say "he/she and I have sex with each other", you would need to
>say {manga'chuq ghaH jIH je} or just {manga'chuq}.
We have only one sentence with {ngagh} "mate with" heard in "Power Klingon":
targhlIj yIngagh! yIruch!
Go mate with your targ! [punctuation uncertain] PK
(lit. "Mate with your targ! Go ahead! [Do it!]")
Okrand did provide another example when answering a request for some
profanity (i.e. "tribble f--ker") to use in a story on startrek.expertforum
(July 1998):
Seems to me that the phrase that best fills in the blank ("I cannot be
insulted by (a) ----") is the one suggested a while back by both SuStel
and Qermaq: {yIH ngaghwI'} (I'd leave the "a" in the English: "I cannot
be insulted by a {yIH ngaghwI'}.") If this is translated as "one who
mates with a tribble," perhaps it sounds too formal or clinical (in
English, not in Klingon) to function as a curse or insult. If it's
translated "tribble mater-wither" or something like that, it has a
somewhat better tone, but it's questionable English and therefore lacks
punch. But English isn't the issue here; Klingon is, and, unless I'm
missing the point, {yIH ngaghwI'} should work. I trust that, in the
story, the Federation officer who utters the phrase is prepared for
what the Klingon may do next.
In both these examples {targh} and {yIH} are direct objects, so you can use
{mu-} and the other "object prefixes" with {ngagh}.
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons