tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun May 15 21:36:51 2005

Back to archive top level

To this year's listing

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]

Re: Subtle shadings of "then": Okrand's error ?

bob mcfaddin ([email protected]) 

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


QeS lagh <[email protected]> wrote: 
You've missed my point, methinks. I didn't say "MO was wrong". 

Ooookay, then, I'll say it. Okrand, like all humans, makes mistakes/errors. Only a cursory listening to the audiotape "Power Klingon" can tell you that..(twenty-one o'clock?). The only point I was trying to make is that, just because it "felt weird to me" doesn't necessarily make it wrong. 

Remember:

How is "then" being used here?
It felt weird to me reading this with /vaj/.

vaj - "then, thus, so, in that case"
ghIq - "then, subsequently"
ngugh - "then, at that time"


(To me) /vaj/ would work if the act of giving you their hand symbolized 
them "speaking" to you, as in body language.


DloraH


I commented that using /vaj / (thus, then, so) following a -chugh  "felt weird" to me... so maybe that was wrong, too (hence the question mark). I'm not much of a believer in "sacred cows", so I apologize if I stepped on delicate toes...but he's human, after all.

I see no grammatical error with either the "subsequently" or the "at that time" interpretation of any "then" which follows an "if"...and no cadre of English majors will convince me otherwise. 

If you do not surrender, following your refusal (subsequently) you will die. Or,

If you do not surrender, immediately on your refusal (at that time), you will die.

By the same token, "thus, so, in that case" , well, gramatically, only the "in that case" interpretation will work in an if/then argument. 

Now, back to the translation I was working on...

jIHvaD ghoplIj Danob 

ghIq jIHvaD bIjatlh.

 See if you can come up with a good way of recasting "I can hardly 
speak": I have one in mind, but I don't want to influence your answer. 
{{:)

tlhoS jIjanglaHbe' je'  (how's that?)

nom vIHmo' tIqwIj 

choSuvchu' 'e' DaHar 'e' luyajbej Hoch (better?)

'ach choSovchu'be' 

...it's pretty good. Stylistically, I'd suggest inverting {-be'} and 
{-chu'}, 
though: {choSovbe'chu'} "you clearly don't know me" preserves the 
original 
sense a little better than {choSovchu'be'} "it's unclear that you know 
me".

Well, I was looking at the rule that the rover follows the concept 
being negated, and following the sense that, while you do in fact know me, 
you don't perfectly know me.So I was trying to negate only the 
"perfectly" concept.Like, okay...you know me... but not as well as you think you do...


>How'm I doin' so far?

Very well! And this is one of my favourite songs. {{:)  (mine too...I 
just love the gravelly voice of K'ray of the House of Charles...

So, to strike while the iron is still hot and before the fog moves 
in...

ghobe?, Hoch ram SoHmo? jInaj ?e? DaSovbe? (no, you don't know that you 
cause me to dream every night)

?uychuq wuSDu?maj 'ej qa?uchqu? ?e? vIneH ?e? DaSovbe? (you don't know 
that I want to really hold you, and to press our lips together)

SoHvaD juplI? jIH neH DaSovchu'be'mo' (To you I'm only a friend.. 
because you don't really know me)

For I never knew the art of making love, (half of skill lies in knowing 
what you can do..the other half lies in knowing what you cannot. I'm 
not ready to try this one yet.)

SoHvaD parmaqwIjmo? ?oy? tIqwIj (My heart aches due to my love for you)

jIyoHHa'mo' jIjaqHa'mo' je'  narghpu' 'ebwIj 'e' vIchawpu'  (Because I 
was not brave, and because I was not bold, I allowed my chance to 
escape)

chaq jIHvaD parmaq Daghoj 'e' 'ebwIj 'oH (that is my chance that you 
perhaps may have love for me..)

Lessee how that went before I try the last verse...








jajvam lururbogh jajmey'e' lutu'lu' muja'ta' SoSoywI'

juDmoS
		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail Mobile
 Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.

Back to archive top level