tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Sep 15 13:31:21 2004

Back to archive top level

To this year's listing

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]

Re: just use it! (Re: jIb

ngabwI' ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 10:51 AM
Subject: just use it! (Re: jIb

> My impression is that this is a minor slam against the cumulative effect 
> of
> several months of my posts.

That's unfortunate. I specifically worded my response this way  to *avoid* 
giving you that impression. There's no hostility here. Honest.

> /begin rant/ In case you haven't noticed, I have been posting in Klingon,
> whenever I feel that the effort is worth it.

And when you do use it, it is almost always correct, grammatically. I 
believe you're better at this than you think you are.

>  I do use Klingon a lot more than is
> evident from this list.  I read whatever Klingon I can find, especially
> *non*canon, because there is so much more of it.

As do I, as does, I would imagine, everyone who can claim any amount of 
proficiency in this language. That's part of learning this language. From 
the things you read you begin to get a feel for the langauge. It is a slow 
process, however.

> Your answer about {wa' jIb} being the exception, most of the fluent 
> speakers
> here resist giving their take on a word.

Because all they can offer much of the time is opinions. Opinions can often 
be wrong. They simply don't wish to lead you astray. (At least this is how 
I've always viewed it.)

>  I feel like I have to invent the wheel over and
> over again,

But you're not "reinventing the wheel". You're building your own.

> in the process wasting a lot of time.

Apologies. I wasn't aware time was a concern. But what's the rush? There's 
no "finish line" here, and I don't get the sense that anyone's competing w/ 
each other. I'm sure you have your reasons for wanting to speed up this 
process, and I'm not asking you to air them here. But if I can help in any 
way w/ speeding up your learning, let me know. I'll see what I can do.

>  I had already come to the
> same conclusion that you suggested:  just use the language; say what I 
> want,
> how I want, and leave it up to the listener to decide if it's unclear or 
> not.

Exactly, but be ready to offer clarifications, if requested.

> In other words, anything goes, *until* you ask about it.  Then it's "Oh, 
> no,
> that's not supported by canon."

Not quite.

All the Grammarians are individuals. They all have different opinions, and 
different ways of expressing them. There are some very experienced speakers 
who have a very conservative stance on this language. When you run into 
something like that, know that they are offering their opinions, and as 
always, you are free to take them or leave them. Anything you see on this 
list that is not canon is merely a suggestion, nothing more.

> There's a huge amount of noncanon text
> (compared to the amount of canon text).  I still haven't figured out why 
> so little
> attention is paid to it./end rant/

Because all the noncanon usage in the world doesn't matter one whit if you 
want to find out how to use the language. If you wish to find how the 
language is used, then noncanon is the way to go. But this list does not 
exist to "standardize" Klingon. We don't even *want* to do that. If several 
people arrive at the same place while trying to express an idea, so be it. 
But if HoD Qanqor used a word one way a decade ago, it doesn't mean that his 
method is somehow "better", or that you can't express the idea differently. 
And there's nothing wrong with that.

And while I was composing this message, I saw Jeremy's post, whose words 
frame so eloquently exactly what I'm trying to say.

--ngabwI'
Beginners' Grammarian
Klingon Language Institute
http://kli.org
HovpoH 702046.5

Back to archive top level