tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri May 07 12:01:07 2004

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Re: KLBC {X-Hom X X-'a'}

cheesbro ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

> > {beyHom bey bey'a' jachtaH}
> > ...
> > If this is possible, is the {X-Hom X X-'a'} part singular, or plural?
> > (Hence {HIvje'Hom HIvje' HIvje''a' lulo'} for "they use ever-larger cups".)
>
> I agree that this is an odd construction, one that feels wierd, certainly.
> It's located on Skybox card S31, and here's the whole quote:
> 
>    Heghpu'bogh tlhIngan mInDu' lupoSmoHlu'. beyHom bey bey'a' jachtaH
>    latlh tlhInganpu'.
>    The eyes of the fallen Klingon are opened and others [Klingons] roar
>    in a great crescendo.  (S31)
> 
> 
> This construct practically screams
> for a {je} at the end, which would make them collectively plural, and fits
> in with the grammar of the sentence. So I suspect it's a canon error.

 
> Conjoined verbs may be interpreted as a 
> sequence, IIRC; there's a sentence in TKW, {bogh tlhInganpu', SuvwI'pu' moj, 
> Hegh} "Klingons are born, live as warriors, then die" (p.5) that shows this. 
> Might conjoined nouns provide a similar sort of sequence? Thus, ??{verengan 
> Human tlhIngan HoH} "He kills a Ferengi, a human, then a Klingon". 
> ...
> but the grammar and translation of {beyHom bey bey'a'} does seem to indicate
> a sequence to me


> {beyHom bey bey'a'} is translated as "great crescendo," not as
> something made up of three kinds of shouts.


As another has stated, {beyHom bey bey'a'} is not simply three different 
shouts.  To me it looks like the three nouns represent an "ever-increasing" 
situation; kind of like how the one poster was attemping "ever-larger" cups.  
Adding a [je] as one suggested would make [beyHom bey bey'a' je] a collection 
of three shouts, and [HIvje'Hom HIvje' HIvje''a' je] would be a collection of 
three cups, and both of these could be written in any sequence ([bey'a' beyHom 
bey je]); but this eliminates the "ever-increasing" idea.

{verengan Human tlhIngan HoH} would need a [je]; what other connection do these 
nouns have?  {bogh tlhInganpu', SuvwI'pu' moj, Hegh} is composed of three 
COMPLETE sentences, and placed in sequencial order.

Going back to [HIvje'Hom HIvje' HIvje''a'], with the canon we have we cannot 
know for sure how the XHom-X-X'a' works; but with the case of [HIvje'Hom HIvje' 
HIvje''a'], -Hom and -'a' don't always express size.  A HIvje'Hom could be a 
large paper cup, a HIvje''a' could be a small fancy gold trimmed cup for the 
king; we don't know.  Maybe such a formula, when used, would (temporarily) 
override those other meanings and would express the "ever-increasing" idea, 
recognized by the [je] or lack of.

Just a thought.


DloraH

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