tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Mar 03 06:20:22 2004

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luSpet <<ghor>> qechmey

QeS lagh ([email protected]) 

jIghItlh:
>chaq <<ghor>> Dalo'laH.
>Maybe you could do something with <ghor> "surface (of a planet)":

jang De'vID:
>That's an interesting suggestion.  I wonder if <ghor> applies
>to astronomical objects other than "planets", even though that's
>the given definition.  For example, does a <Hov> have a <ghor>?
>What about non-solid planets, like a gas giant?  Technically (in
>Terran terminology), black holes do not have surfaces.  They
>have what are called event horizons (the boundary where the
>escape velocity is exactly the speed of light).  But who's to say
>that Klingons make the same distinction as humans?

In the same way, these are interesting questions. Gas giants have fairly 
well defined boundaries due to gravity, but is the {ghor} the apparent 
surface or the surface of the ball of ice in the middle? I would guess that 
{ghor} would be the apparent surface, since the idea of it referring to the 
ball of ice in the middle of a gas giant doesn't seem particularly useful 
from a generic astronomical point of view. Now, if this were the case, then 
it's not a big jump from gas giants ({SIp yuQ'a'mey} or maybe just 
{yuQ'a'mey}) to stars ({Hovmey}). But black holes?

Other ideas (all totally theories; please add your thoughts):

{ghorHey} "apparent surface"
{moQHey} "apparent sphere"
{('otlh/tlham) veH} "(photon/gravity) boundary"
{ghor rurbogh luSpet veH} "black hole boundary that resembles a planet's 
surface"
{luSpet 'otlh narghmeH veH}, "black hole's photon's escaping boundary"
{luSpet veH'e' lunarghlaHbe'bogh 'otlh} "boundary of a black hole, which 
photons cannot escape"
{luSpet tlham veH'e' lunarghlaHbe'bogh 'otlh} "boundary of a black hole's 
gravity which photons cannot escape"

The last two are my personal favourites of these; they use subordinate verbs 
instead of going in so hard for the noun (see below), and are also quite 
descriptive in just one subordinate clause. You could probably expand on 
these ideas far better than I could. :D

taH:
>qay'be'.  You've given me an insight into the problem, which is
>that I've been thinking too much in terms of "nouns" such as
>"area".  This is how physics is done on Earth (using concepts
>like "area" or "mass"), but Klingons are more "verb"-oriented.
>Instead of thinking "increases with the *area*", a Klingon would
>emphasize "as the area *gets bigger*".  maj!

qatlho'! Because English is so noun-centric, it's tough to shift your ideas 
from nouns to verbs. I know; when I first started learning Klingon, it was 
quite a challenge. I used to have a tendency to look for a solution with 
{-ghach} or {-wI'} when all I needed was the right verb. Fortunately, I'm 
feeling much better now...

reH latlh tlhIngan Hol jatlhwI'pu' vIQaHrupqu' vIQaHlaHchugh.

taHqa':
>In other circumstances, I would accept <logh> as "space" in the
>sense of "amount of room occupied in 3D", but I don't think
>it'll work for what I want to describe -- precisely because
>I'm writing about astrophysics.  In the context defined, <logh>
>has precisely the astronomical meaning of "space, outer space".

I still think you could get away with something to do with {logh}, but only 
because black holes are found in {logh}. :D
Maybe <<logh 'ay' tebbogh luSpet>> "the section of outer space which the 
black hole fills"? (Or {Dab} might also work, unless this can only be used 
by sentient beings - any thoughts?)

However, I agree: we don't know a whole lot about the way to express names 
for dimensions, spaces, areas and the rest. We know that a {gho} is the 2D 
equivalent of a {moQ}, but we don't even know what a square is called, let 
alone a cube. (Can you imagine what the Klingon name for a hypercube would 
be?) We have units of volume, distance, and weight, but we don't know the 
words for "volume", "distance" or "weight". We don't even have a generic 
word for "size", AFAIK. Maybe we do have to resort to {-ghach} formations, 
or to verbal recasting. Personally, I'm for the second option (due in part 
to the markedness of {-ghach} in Klingon).

choQaHlaHmo' jIbel.

Savan.

QeS lagh

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