tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jun 30 08:31:24 2004

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Re: models of excellent language use

David Trimboli ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

>From: [email protected]
>
>In a message dated 2004-06-30 8:48:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>[email protected] writes:
>
> > If you prefer option 2, have fun and go make up your own Klingon words, 
>but
> > do it somewhere other than this list.  Start your own Klingon language 
>list
> > or group.  Do with it what you like.
>
>I *do* prefer option 2, that's it's an artificial language.  The pretense
>that it's a native language can last for only so long, because all of our 
>new
>material comes from exactly one source.  When something happens to Marc 
>Okrand
>(hopefully a natural death after a long and happy life) that he can no 
>longer
>provide that material, then we're stuck.  What then?

The KLI has lasted more than a decade, and it's doing just fine.  Lawrence 
frequently expresses his amazement that it got as big as it has.  The 
natural language pretense seems to hold up quite well.  This is further 
demonstrated by publications of Shakespeare, Gilgamesh, blogs like Qov's and 
qurgh's, and other efforts.  They do good work while staying within the 
pretense that Klingon is a natural language.

In the upcoming Earthlings movie (http://www.earthlings-movie.com), Mark 
Okrand says that he isn't ready to give up control of the language yet, and 
that he thinks it's premature to start worrying about that yet.  Eventually, 
he thinks, he may hand it over to someone else, but for now it's his "baby."

Even if we stopped learning new Klingon today, we still have plenty of 
material to work with, and we can say just about anything we want.  (Some 
things we can't say easily are Earth-specific, and some are possibly 
intentional, like the lack of a subjunctive mood, and we're never going to 
get them anyway).

>Believe it or not, there *is* no other Klingon language, and making up my 
>own
>words or grammar will not allow me to communicate with other people, not in
>writing nor in speech.  If I want to use Klingon, I have to use Okrand's
>version.  Do I have to like the restrictions some of you place on it?  No.  
>But it's
>the only game in town.

>And maybe you haven't noticed that even though I mention or argue about
>controversial topics, I don't use them.  Once they've been talked about, I 
>don't
>usually bring them back up.  In fact, I've refrained from sending some 
>comments
>after finding out the sentiments of people like you about certain topics.

If you HONESTLY disagree with the opinions of others here, feel free to use 
Klingon they way *you* think it's supposed to work.  We do our best to use 
Klingon as we find it in Okrand's examples.  If you have a different opinion 
as to what is the best Klingon, use it.

I'm not sure what restrictions we're placing that you're talking about.  To 
be frank, my position for the last few years is that Klingon is a lot more 
flexible and free-form than some people here think, and that some people 
want to lay down laws for things that may or may not be true.  I typically 
say "You don't know that," and people get mad at me for it (usually because 
I don't express it sympathetically).

>As
>I said earlier, I only comment when I find something interesting, or that I
>don't understand.  Is that a problem?

If that were it, no, it wouldn't be.  But I think you post these things to 
try to demonstrate that the list is dominated by totalitarians who want to 
crush any dissenting opinions.

You want me (and other experts) to be more accepting of your opinions?  I 
have no problem with that.  Stop trying to rub our faces in what you 
perceive as flaws or lacking parts of the language, and express your 
opinions.  Make you case.  Don't post things just to see who will disagree.

Then, be prepared for people to disagree with you.  If you want me to be 
accepting of your opinions, you have to be accepting of mine.

SuStel
Stardate 4497.3

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