tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Jun 19 05:25:18 2004
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Re: ghuH
- From: "QeS lagh" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: ghuH
- Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 22:24:39 +1000
- Bcc:
ghItlhlu'pu':
> loghDaq SalmeH, be'pu' wa'DIch wIv *China* logh woQ.
> The China Space Authority chose the first women to launch (them) into
>space.
> loghDaq SalmoHmeH, be'pu' wa'DIch wIv *China* logh tum.
> The China Space Agency chose the first women to launch (them) into
>space.
jangpu' lay'tel SIvten:
>This still doesn't feel right. (BTW, you translated {Sal} as "launch".
>Maybe that's why you think there should be a {-moH}.) The agency (we'll
>call it that) isn't causing (i.e. forcing or coercing) the women to go up.
>And it's not physically lifting them up. It's allowing them to or
>providing them the opportunity to go up.
ram. They're still the agent (there's that dreaded word again) of the
action.
If you said "They made the women go up" in English, there's often a
connotation that the women are somehow not willing to go up; they're being
forced, as you say. But this implication is lacking entirely in the Klingon.
If I had a child whom I was dressing for school, for instance, it's
perfectly acceptable to say {vItuQmoH} without implying that he or she was
being coerced or forced somehow.
All of these are acceptable meanings for {-moH} AFAIK:
{lupDujHom SalmoH 'eDSeHcha} "the takeoff/landing thrusters makes the
shuttlecraft ascend"
{lupDujHom SalmoH 'orwI'} "the pilot makes the shuttlecraft ascend"
{lupDujHom SalmoH tlhIngan ra'ghomquv} "the Klingon High Command makes the
shuttlecraft ascend"
The causation doesn't have to be direct.
That being put aside: The difference in the two sentences in the original
email is the referent of the {-meH} clause. In {SalmoHmeH}, it's the agency
("in order that (the agency) causes them to ascend into space"); in
{SalmeH}, it's the women ("in order that (the women) ascend into space").
>In what kind of situation would {Sal} be used without {-moH}? Levitation,
>climbing up a hill, a balloon floating up into the sky? When would {Sal}
>without {-moH} NOT be used? Whenever a vehicle is used?
There's nothing wrong with saying that a vehicle ascends.
{SalchoH lupDujHom} "the shuttlecraft ascended"
QeS lagh
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