tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Jun 03 16:25:17 2004

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Re: mu' lo' QaQ 'oSbogh mu'tlheghmey

David Trimboli ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

From: <[email protected]>

> In a message dated 2004-06-03 11:00:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [email protected] writes:
>
> > As an advanced speaker, I think that the advanced speakers should not
have
> > any authority to declare truths about Klingon, to be followed by all.  I
> > know most of the advanced speakers agree with me.  That simply isn't
what
> > the KLI is about.  Do what we do: form your own opinions about how
things
> > work, use the language that way, and communicate with others.  Your best
> > chance of influencing common usage is by example, not by enforcement.
> >
> > SuStel
>
> As I see it, every sentence or utterance by anyone except Okrand is
> non-canon.  Therefore all speakers of Klingon create non-canon usage every
day.  Why
> shouldn't the hard work of thinking how to say something be handed down to
the
> beginners instead of forcing each new person to come up with his own way
of
> saying something?

Learning to speak another language is hard work.  No one is going to learn
to speak the language if he is given phrases from experts.  To learn, post
and read Klingon messages on this list.  Nothing can replace practice.

> Somehow you brought the KLI into the discussion.  I don't think of the KLI
as
> any kind of language enforcers.  I wasn't asking for the advanced users or
> the KLI to 'declare truths' about Klingon.

Your proposal was to put a list on the wiki maintained by the KLI.  Most, if
not all, advanced speakers are, or have been, members of the KLI.  This list
is maintained by the KLI.  Do you not see the connection?  A list of usages
on the KLI wiki by expert speakers will be perceived by new speakers, your
target audience, as endorsed by the KLI.

> But their usage is a fact.  It
> should be treated as valuable learning material too.

I see no reason to accept advanced speakers' usages over beginners' usages
in any survey of how Klingon is used by real people.  The speaking
population is far too small to carry any weight, and there are too many
disagreements, even among advanced speakers, to take any such survey as any
kind of gospel.

A far, far more valuable way for beginners to learn the styles of advanced
speakers is to read their writing, and try writing their own text.  As
ter'eS says, that's what Qo'noS QonoS and jatmey are for.  That's what this
list is for.  A paragraph of Klingon text, without any claim that it is
authoritatively correct, is much more useful than a list of claims by some
advanced speaker.

> How do you deal with words that have never been used in canon?  Do you use
> them yourself, or do you wait for clarification from Okrand?

I use them as I believe, by my best guess, they are used by Klingons, and I
do not require or expect that anyone else agree with me.  I make no claim
that my understanding is more correct than yours.  I will put forth my
theories and ideas, but I do not say they must be followed because I said
them.  I certainly will not make a list on the KLI wiki of so-called
accepted meanings for every word.  Accepted by whom?  A dozen Grammarians?
Me?  What if a less-able speaker strongly disagrees with this list?  Is he
wrong?  Is he speaking unacceptably?

SuStel
Stardate 4424.2

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