tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jan 27 22:57:48 2004
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
KLBC: -meH
At 01:51 PM 1/25/2004, ngabwI' wrote:
> > Dar'Qang:
> > Another thing I'm not sure about regarding '-meH is whether or not the
> > resulting clause can modify a phrase, or if the construction can only be
> > used to modify a noun or a verb.
>
>I'm not sure I get your meaning. A {-bogh} phrase, collectively, can replace
>a noun, so I don't see anything wrong with a {-meH} phrase "modifying" a
>{-bogh} phrase:
>{HoHmeH DIngbogh jan} "A spinning machine for killing"
>would not be misunderstood. (Was that your question?)
I'll try to clarify what I'm trying to understand about -meH.
On the Klingonska Akademien site the description is:
"Purpose-Clause Marker:
-meH for, for the purpose of, in order to "
"The purpose clause always precedes the noun or verb whose
purpose it is describing, e.g. ja'chuqmeH rojHom a truce in
order to confer; jagh luHoHmeH lunejtaH They are searching for
the enemy in order to kill him/her. [TKD 6.2.4]"
My question is, how strictly to interpret the phrase 'noun
or verb'?
I'll try an example to explain. Suppose I am reading a book in
order to learn something about the author's style. I'll just
use <*Doch> for author's style. :) So <*Doch vIghojmeH> "In
order to learn the author's style" and <paq vIlaD> "I read the
book".
I expect that I could write: <*Doch vIghojmeH, paq vIlaD> and be
understood. But the -meH verb doesn't modify either a noun or
a verb, but a sentence-piece. Is the whole sentence understood
because it is correct Klingon, or because it is implicitly
relying on DIvI' Hol syntax?
If the -meH clause is intended to *only* modify a noun or a
verb, than to someone (tlhInganna'?) totally unfamiliar with
DIvI' Hol, the phrase <*Doch vIghojmeH, paq vIlaD> might read
like "Blue, I swim in the ocean" reads to a DIvI' Hol speaker.
It all hinges on whether or not the [verb]-meH can only modify a
just noun or a verb specifically.
If one were to write <*Doch vIghojmeH paq vIlaD>, that isn't the
original meaning. I would interpret it as "I read the
for-the-purpose-of-learning-the-style-book." This suggests
that the topic of the book is the author's style.
If OTOH one uses the -meH phrase to modify the verb, that *does*
capture the meaning: "I for-the-purpose-of-learning-the-style-read the
book." I like
this, the way it modifies the action. But the syntax doesn't
seem to work: <paq *Doch vIghojmeH vIlaD>. The two nouns are
placed together, creating a confusing ambiguity.
If it were true that the -meH verb can only modify a noun or
a verb, than one could write: <paq vIlaD. *Doch vIghojmeH jIlaD>,
so I'm not worried about how to make it work.
I'm just not sure what is intended. That is, what is the
correct (strict) Klingon?
Am I reading too much into the wording "noun or verb"?
Dar'Qang