tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Jan 24 13:58:25 2004
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Re: taghwI' jIH
At 07:28 AM 1/24/2004, you wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dar'Qang" <[email protected]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 11:47 PM
>Subject: taghwI' jIH
>
>Welcome to the list, Dar'Qang!
[... resources noted]
>You obviously have some experience under your belt, as your Klingon is very
>good, with only a few very minor mistakes that I'll get to here in a sec.
>
>What language resources do you have already?
So far, I'm going from what I've found on the internet. I'll likely begin
to accumulate the standard resources over the next year or so.
>Feel free to ask questions, analyze other people's messages, and attempt
>your own.
>
>You have been officially welcomed! }}: )
>
>Since there is no English provided, I'm going to base this on what I think
>you were trying to say.
Thanks, and thanks for your effort. This is what I wanted to see - how
much would get through independently of knowledge about what I was trying
to say.
> > Dar'Qang:
> > taghwI' jIH. qaStaHvIS jav jar tlhIngan Hol vIghoj. jav wen jItagh. ngugh
> > pIqaDqoq vIbuS. jIqIDmeH pIqaDqoq vInej.
>
>"I am a beginner. I've studied Klingon for six months. I began six months
>ago. At that time, I was concentrating on 'Klingon writing'. I was looking
>for it in order to tell a joke."
>
>All correct. {majQa'}. }}: )
>
> > Dar'Qang:
> > puS ben *Klingon Unicode
> > Proposal*daq pIqaDqoq vItu'pu'. jav wen malja'wIjdaq *Acronym* vIcha'meH
> > pIqaDqoq vIlo vIneH. tlhaQ 'e' vIHar. *internet*daq tlhIngan pIqaDqoq
> > vIgoch. ngugh tlhIngan Hol vISovchu'be'. Saghbe' tlhIngan Hol 'e' vIHar.
> > mu' puS vIpIH. tlhoy ngotlh Hov leng ngotlhwI'pu' 'e' vIpIH.
>
>"A few years back, I found 'Klingon writing' in the Klingon Unicode
>Proposal. Six months ago, I wanted to use 'Klingon writing' for an acronym
>in my business. I thought it was funny. I tracked it down on the internet. I
>didn't fully understand Klingon then. I thought Klingon wasn't serious. I
>expected few words, and that Star Trek fans(?) were overly fanatical."
>Is that last sentence what you were going for?
>BTW: Sometimes, {parHa'wI'} "One who likes" is used for "fan" on this list.
I was intending for the last sentence to say something more like "I
expected overly fanatical Star Trek Fans" [to be the ones behind the
Klingon language].
A subtlety: I would like it to say the equivalent of "I thought that it
*would be* funny" for the middle sentence of the quoted paragraph.
> > Dar'Qang:
> > mumerqu'ba' tlhIngan Hol. law' mu'. Daj pab. tlhIngan Hol chenmoH Hol tej
> > 'e' vItu'. chIch tera'ngan Holmey HochHom rurbe'bogh Hol'e' chenmoH Hol
> > tejvam. DIvI' Hol rurbe'qu' tlhIngan Hol. ngoDvam vIparHa'. law' mugh QIch
> > wab 'e' vItIv je.
>
>"Klingon obviously surprised me. It has a large vocabulary, and interesting
>grammar. I found that a linguist created Klingon. This linguist purposely
>created a language that did not resemble most Earth languages. It really
>doesn't resemble English. I like that. I also enjoy that the noise of the
>vocal sounds translates..." {nuqjatlh?}
Oops, a typo: I should have said "law' Hugh QIch wab 'e' vItIv je." I've
organized a dictionary in an OO.org spreadsheet, but I've done in as
pIqaDqoq - English. I occasionally misread the 'H' as 'm'.
Intending to say that I like the many throat sounds.
>You had me until the last {law'}, but otherwise flawless. Well done.
>
> > Dar'Qang:
> > Hol'e' chenmoHta'bogh vay' vItu'qa'. tlhoS wejmaH ben, *Esperanto* vIHaD.
> > loQ vIHaD. *Esperanto* vIpar. tlhoy yabwIjDaq *utopian vision* rur
> > *Esperanto* ngoQ. Daj Holmey'e' chenmoHta'bogh vay'. *utopian vision*mey
> > vImuS. munuQ. *Esperanto* vIlon.
>
>"I found languages that someone created again. Almost thirty years ago, I
>studied Esperanto a little. I didn't like it. The goal of Esp. resembled a
>utopian vision too much, in my mind. 'Created languages' are interesting. I
>hate utopian visions. They annoy me. I abandoned Esp."
>Well done.
>
> > Dar'Qang:
> > pIm tlhIngan Hol. tlhIngan Hol vItIv. qo' nab tIn Hutlh Holvam. nov Segh
> > jat jon Holvam. Hov leng vItIvbej. reH tlhIngan lut vItIv. 'ach
> > jIngotlhchu'be'. Daj vay' 'e' vItu': SIbI' tlhIngan Hol vIHaDDI' Hov leng
> > vItIvqu'choH. DaH mumenmoH <<tlhIngan jIH>> vIjatlhDI'. qatlh?
> > jISovchu'be'. chaq 'op les po jIvemDI' ghegh QuchwIj 'e' vItu'.<g>
>
>"Klingon's different. I enjoy it. This language doesn't have a 'big world
>plan'*. This language captures the tongues of an alien race.** I enjoy Star
>Trek. I always enjoy the Klingon stories. But I'm not perfectly
>fanatical(?). I found something interesting: When I study Klingon
>immediately, I started to really enjoy Star Trek.*** Now , it surprises me
>when I say 'I am a Klingon'****. Why? I don't know. Maybe in a few days,
>I'll wake up with a rough forehead.<g>"
>* {tIn} indicates something physically large. For meanings like "grand", we
>have {-'a'} (noun suffix type1). You were probably going for something like
>{qo' nab'a'} "great world plan".
maj. bIlugh. jIyaj.
>** This is understood only literally: the languages goes out, finds an alien
>race, and starts to remove the tongues of the individual members of that
>race. I would suggest {qa'} "spirit" here.
jIyajchu'.
>*** Were you going for "When I started to study Klingon, I immediately began
>enjoying Star Trek?" Adverbials (words like {SIbI'}, {pe'vIl}, {nIteb},
>etc.) come at the beginning of the clause they are modifying. I think you
>might have meant:
>{tlhIngan Hol vIHaDchoHDI', SIbI' Hov leng vItIvqu'choH.}
>"When I started to study Klingon, I immediately began to enjoy ST."
Yes. I was trying to indicate "I immediately began to enjoy ST more (than
before)". I tried to shoe-horn it in using "-qu'choH", where the change in
state would be from enjoy to very enjoy. I don't grasp how to use the
Klingon comparative for this (i.e., "now more than before");
>**** Marc Okrand has already told us that the only appropriate objects for
>{jatlh} are a language ({tlhIngan Hol}, {DIvI' Hol}, etc.) and a noun
>describing the speech "event": {SoQ} "speech, address", {mu'} "word", etc.)
>Direct quotations take no object:
>{jIjatlh: <<HolQeD vItIvbej>>} OR {<<HolQeD vItIvbej>> jIjatlh.}
>"I spoke. 'I enjoy linguistics'." OR "'I enjoy linguistics'. I spoke."
>In both cases, it would be understood that I uttered the exact phrase "I
>enjoy linguistics."
maj. I vacillated between vI and jI, and tried to settle based on my own
reasoning.
The verb I used was "men", intending "it causes me to smile".
> > Dar'Qang:
> > vaj bong tlhIngan Hol ghojwI' vImoj. QIt jIruchtaH. leng vItIv.
>
>"So I've accidentally become a Klingon student. I'm proceeding slowly. I am
>enjoying the trip."
>Excellent.
>
> > Dar'Qang:
> > tlhIngan pong vIwIvta'. Dar'Qang vIwIv.
>
>"I've chosen a Klingon name: Dar'Qang" {maj}
>
> > Dar'Qang:
> > jIqab jIH. tlhIHvad jImughbe'. chIch pagh DIvI' Hol mu'tlhegh vIlIng.
> > jImughbe'meH jItu': QInwij Sayaj'a'?
>
>"/I'm/ bad. I didn't translate for y'all. I produced no English sentences on
>purpose. I find in order for me not to translate(?). Do I understand my
>message for y'all(?)"
>I'm not sure I know what you were going for with that second-to-last
>sentence.
Grammatical mistake on my part. I seem to want to put the -meH on the
wrong verb. I did this same thing in an earlier sentence, but discovered
and corrected. Had I caught this one, I would have written: "jItu'meH
jImughbe' :...".
Another thing I'm not sure about regarding '-meH is whether or not the
resulting clause can modify a phrase, or if the construction can only be
used to modify a noun or a verb.
>In that last sentence, I strongly suspect that you were looking for "Do
>y'all understand my message?" {Sa-} is "I-y'all". {bo-} is "y'all-it":
>{QInwIj boyaj'a'?} "Do y'all understand my message?"
bIlugh.
>All in all, these mistakes are minor, and for the most part, they did not
>interfere with your communication. This was an excellent first post. Well
>done, and welcome to the list! }}: )
Thanks!
>--ngabwI'
>Beginners' Grammarian,
>Klingon Language Institute
>http://kli.org/
>HovpoH 701080.9
Dar'Qang