tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Dec 06 08:36:29 2004
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Re: -ghach-'a'! :)
QeS lagh:
> > The way I understand {-ghach}, it would only work in this case if
> > "subscription" meant the act of subscribing, rather than an actual
> > membership (which the site seems to be asking for). IMO, it would be
> > impossible to buy a {muvta'ghach}; you could only {muv}, and the act of
> > {muv}ing is the {muvta'ghach}. That may involve transfer of money, but
Agreed. {ghach}'ed nouns are abstract nouns in Klingon, not tangible nouns
(i.e. objects). In English similar abstract nouns formed with "(a)tion"
can sometimes refer to an object as well, probably as a secondary
development - e.g. recommendation, commendation - but in Klingon, so far as
we know, words like {naDHa'ghach} and {naDqa'ghach} refer to the act alone.
> > that's part of the {muvta'ghach}: the action of joining. Once you're
> > subscribed, you don't have a {muvta'ghach} any more. That's the way I see
> > it: in the verb-focused grammar of Klingon, {-ghach} refers to an
> action (in
> > this case, subscribing), not to any result of the action (the subscription
> > or membership).
Paul:
>Ah, but remember /-ta'/ is the suffix that says the action was completed.
>Not saying this validates the expression at all, but /muvta'/ if you look
>at /muvta'/ as "joined (intentionally)", adding /-ghach/ should create a
>noun which is the attribute of having joined, or describes the state of
>something which has joined. Once a person has joined, they will always
>have been joined (arguably, even if they then unjoined, they will still
>always have joined at some point in time).
>
>If */muvghach/ was legal, I might translate that into "the joining", like
>"the joining of the group". But I think with the suffix, /muvta'ghach/
>more refers to "the state of having joined", which seems inline with the
>concept of a "subscription".
In the very few examples of canon {ghach}'ed nouns, I could find none with
{-ta'}. (I did find *{tlhIngan wo' muvta'ghach jaj} "Klingon Empire Union
Day" with no source listed, probably a fan site.) However, two examples
with the other perfective suffix {-pu'} were provided in Okrand's article
on {-ghach} in HolQeD 3.3:
belpu'ghach "having been pleased"
nobpu'ghach "a given (a finished case of giving)"
This last is contrasted with {nobtaHghach} "ongoing giving".
I think *{muvpu'ghach} works for "subscription". Don't get hung up on
{-ta'} "intentionally" idea; one can be accidentally or maliciously
subscribed as well (I know I have!). That being said, I think using a verb
feels more "Klingon": e.g. {Daqvam yImuv!} "Join this site!" or just
{ghomuv!} "Join us!".
>It ain't perfect, but I doubt we'd really get perfection in this case. I
>wonder if we could convince the next friend of Maltz to ask for a bevvy of
>internet service concept words like "subscribe", "log in", "log out",
>maybe some idea of how menu items should be terms (commands? /-meH/
>clauses? etc)....
Since Maltz is a science officer, he should be quite conversant with
Klingon computer terminology. Unfortunately, the Federation linguists
interviewing him may not be. <g>
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons