tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Aug 26 17:34:32 2004

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Re: waH

...Paul ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, QeS lagh wrote:
> Klingon grammar demands that the subject of a copular sentence takes the
> suffix {-'e'}. Hence, if the verb in the sentence {SoH 'Iv} is the pronoun
> {SoH}, then the question word {'Iv} must take the suffix {-'e'}, because it
> is in the subject position. In the same way, if {'Iv} is the verb in {'Iv
> SoH}, the pronoun {SoH} must take {-'e'}:
>
> ??{'Iv SoH'e'} "who are you?"
> ??{SoH 'Iv'e'} "who are you?"

Very good point, but this somewhat conflicts with your next very good
point:

> means "I am X". For this reason, pronouns-as-verbs can't sensibly take
> subjects, unless the pronoun-as-verb is third person, in which case they can
> take semantically sensible subjects: {tlhIngan jatlhwI' ghaH Holtej'e'}
> "Holtej is a Klingon speaker".

The problem is, TKD p68 says "In the above examples, the subjects are
pronouns.  If the subject is a noun, it follows the third-person pronoun
and takes the -'e' topic suffix."

So here's the problem.  /SoH 'Iv'e'/ cannot be correct, because /SoH/ is
not a third-person pronoun.  If there cannot be a subject to /SoH/, then
the only correct possibility is /'Iv SoH/.  This is further compounded on
page 69:  "Both 'Iv and nuq are treated as nouns as far as pronomial
prefixes are concerned.  That is, they are considered third person."
Which means you could never have /SoH 'Iv/ because if /'Iv/ is third
person, it should be /ghaH 'Iv/ or maybe /SoH ghaH 'Iv/...

Almost without question, the only correct form of the question "Who are
you" is /'Iv SoH/.  Of course, the problem is that MO goofed up and
canonized /SoH 'Iv/.

Perhaps it best to merely leave /SoH 'Iv/ as "colloquial" Klingon, and
agree to prefer /'Iv SoH/ as "academically correct".

Which still, however, allows the construct /'Iv SoHbe'/ "You are not who?"
or "Who aren't you?"

...Paul

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