tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Aug 26 15:07:17 2004

Back to archive top level

To this year's listing

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]

Re: {'Iv}

Steven Boozer ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 

lay'SIv:
> >> {'Iv SoH} and {SoH 'Iv}
>
> > I don't think they are the same.  Both {'Iv} and {SoH} can be verbs, 
> but both

Not {'Iv}.

> > sentences only work when the verb is second.  Negate these and you get {'Iv
> > SoHbe'} and {SoH 'Ivbe'} ("You aren't who?" and "Who aren't 
> you?").  Neither
> > {'Ivbe' SoH} nor {SoHbe' 'Iv} makes sense because the subject and verb 
> don't
> > agree.

There's no evidence that you can put {-be'} - or any other kind of verb or 
noun suffix - on {'Iv}.  Here are all the examples we know of:

   yaS legh 'Iv
   Who sees the officer? TKD

   'Iv legh yaS
   Whom does the officer see? TKD

   SoH 'Iv
   Who are you? CK

   SoH 'Iv jay'
   [Who the hell are you?! (untr.)] ST6

...Paul:
>I would definitely prefer one of the /SoHbe'/ constructs rather than the
>other two, but this shows that it's not the order that matters even in
>this case.  If I could make generalizations, I might say that:
>
>* Regular pronouns may be used as verbs to represent "to be"
>
>* The question words /'Iv/ and /nuq/ may be used as pronouns.

I agree:  "... may be used AS PRONOUNS" only.

>* Question words are not *actually* pronouns, and thus cannot be used as
>   verbs "to be".

Agreed.  They have some pronoun-like qualities, but there's no evidence 
that question words like {nuq} and {'Iv} may be used AS VERBS like full 
pronouns.

Here's Okrand on {nuq} [st.klingon 12/06/96]:

   Question words (in this case, {nuq} "what?") function the same way
   pronouns do in questions with "to be" in the English translations.
   Thus, the question {yIH nuq?} "What is a tribble?" is exactly parallel
   the statement {yIH 'oH] "It is a tribble"... The answer to the question
   {yIH nuq}? ("What is a tribble?") would presumably be a definition or
   description of a tribble. This being the case, then, the answer to the
   question {jarlIj qaq nuq}? ("What is your preferable month?") would
   presumably be a definition of "your favorite month."

Notice that Okrand avoids calling {nuq} and {'Iv} verbs, or even saying 
they act "as verbs".

>I think these rules match known canon (is there any canon that does not
>subscribe to these derived "rules"?) but obviously that doesn't mean it's
>correct...  I think it's a clean derivative, though, and answers a lot of
>unanswered questions.

I think the best way to understand questions like {yIH nuq?} or {nuq 
mI'lIj, tera'ngan?} (CK) are as verbless questions.  You don't need a verb 
to ask a question.  This is not as strange as it seems.  For example, 
Russian has no "to be" verb in the present tense.  E.g.

   *Kto vy?*   "Who [are] you?"

Hebrew (and Arabic) can use pronouns as copula verbs (like Klingon), but 
often omit them in simple sentences.  E.g.:

   *Mi atah?*  "Who [are] you?"

This exactly parallels Klingon {SoH 'Iv} "Who are you?", with the usual 
"backwards" order of subject and predicate of course.

"Who aren't you?" or "You aren't who?" are red herrings;  they're nonsense 
even in English.  The vast majority of questions - except, perhaps, 
existential/philosophical ones - expect a definite, positive response.  You 
want information; you ask "Who is he?" not "Who isn't he?", "What is this?" 
not "What isn't this?", "When do we leave?" not "When don't we 
leave?".  The answer may well be indefinite or negative - "He isn't a 
Klingon," "This isn't a metal I recognize," "Not now", "I don't know" - but 
the question is positive.



-- 
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

Back to archive top level