tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue May 27 11:43:17 2003
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Re: KLBC: {cha'}?
SuStel:
> >We do have an appropriate word: /gheS/ "take on the duties of." It doesn't
> >imply going from a lesser rank to a greater rank, but it will work for this
> >sentence:
> >
> >gheS'eghmoH *Napoleon*. voDleH moj.
> >Napoleon made himself take on the duties of emperor.
> >(Literally, "Napoleon made himself take on duties. He became emperor.")
More literally: "Napoleon made himself take on the duties [of Napoleon]."
Quvar:
>I've read it over an over, and I do not like it. I can't tell why, but it
>looks wrong. I see {gheS} as
>"assume duties of" and I think it cannot stand alone.
>The object of {gheS} is the duty which one takes.
>
>[tkd: suffix {-'egh} ... is used to indicate that the action described by
>the verb affects the performer
>of the action, the subject. It is translated by English "self."]
>
>{gheS'egh} "he assumes duties of himself"???
>
>Maybe I'm stuck somewhere, please convince me! :-)
You're right, Quvar: I think SuStel is on the wrong track here. Let's go
to the canon:
gheS "assume duties of, take on responsibilities"
DaH yaS wa'DIch vIgheS
I now take my place as first officer.
"Now I assume the responsibilities of first officer." KGT
juDev 'ej Dujvam ra'wI' DagheS'e' vItlhob
I ask you to lead us as commander of this ship
"I request that you lead us and that you assume the duties of commander
of this ship." KGT
moj "become"
yaS vImojpu'
I became an officer. TKD
yaS DImojpu'
We became officers. TKD
DIHIvbej [pagh] qo'chajDaq toy'wI''a' DImoj
Attack or be slaves in their world. ST6
bogh tlhInganpu', SuvwI'pu' moj, Hegh
Klingons are born, live as warriors, then die. TKW
wa' jaj 'etlh 'uchchoHlaH tlhIngan puqloD; jajvetlh loD nen moj
The son of a Klingon is a man the day he can first hold a blade. TKW
yejquv DevwI' moj ghawran 'e' wuqta' cho' 'oDwI' Dapu'bogh janluq pIqarD
HoD
Gowron... named leader of the High Council by Captain Jean-Luc Picard, who
was acting as Arbiter of Succession. S25
{gheS} apparently works just like {moj}:
voDleH gheS Napoleon.
Napoleon assumed the duties (took on the responsibilities) of emperor.
voDleH moj Napoleon.
Napoleon became emperor.
Using the reflexive suffix {-'egh} to refer back to the subject makes no
sense for either of these verbs. You can't become yourself (except,
perhaps, in the most existential sense).
BTW, we also have the verb {num} "promote" with no canon from Okrand
(although the KLI has used it in its "Friends of Maltz" certificate in the
sense of "promote the Klingon language" which doesn't feel right to
me). I've lost the original sentence, but it looks like you're all trying
to say:
num'egh Napoleon; voDleH moj.
Napoleon promoted himself to emperor.
"Napoleon promoted himself; he became emperor."
I think that this gets across the idea that Napoleon made *himself* emperor.
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons