tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jun 23 17:48:03 2003
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Re: SISbogh chal 'e' vImuSHa'bej
David Trimboli wrote: (all my responses are marked with this key: <><>)
>From: Klingon Warrior
DaH naDev, *Denver, Kolorado*Daq, SIS. toH, SIbI' may'luchwIj tuQmoH jIH
'ej Hur jIqet.
>>/tuQ/ is a controversial word. Some think /tuQmoH/ is a separate entity; I
think it's just /tuQ + moH/ with a badly worded translation. Whatever it
is, you missed the /vI-/ you'd need on it.
<><>I thought I accomplished the /vI-/ part of the sentence when I wrote: /may'luchwIj tuQmoH jIH/. I don't need a prefix if a pronoun is doing the job, qar'a'?
SIbI' may'luchwIj vItuQchoH
I immediately put on my battle-gear.
I used /tuQchoH/ because "begin to wear" means the same thing as "put on."
<><>Agreed, and I think I should have caught the fact that I needed the "change" suffix (knowing full well I was implying that I did not have my battle gear on before). qatlho'.
Also, you need /HurDaq jIqet/. /Hur/ "outside" is the location of the
action, so it needs /-Daq/ "locative."
<><>I did not realize that the "locative" suffix was needed on locative nouns. Thank you. I will remember this in the future.
>reH SIS vIneH. loQ SIStaHvIS neH, qeylIS naD vaj no'maj tIQ 'e' jIHar.
/vIHar/, not /jIHar/. /'e'/ is a third-person singular object.
<><>Simple mistake...probably was writing too fast. Thank you for catching it.
Nice use of /vaj/ "abstract concept of warrior."
<><>Ha! You caught that! YES! My intention completely! :)
>SISmo', pay' 'ej pIj mev che'ronmeyDaq tIQ SuvtaHbogh vajpu' tIQ
There are a few problems here. First, you can't join adverbials with /'ej/.
That's for sentences (or rather, for verb phases).
<><>Did not know that...what do I do then? Should I just start the sentence /pay' pIj/?
Second, you can't put
a locative after the verb. /che'ronmeyDaq mev/, not */mev che'ronmeyDaq/.
<><>I think you may have misread my sentence (or rather I miswrote my sentence). I wanted to say, "Ancient Warriors who fought on ancient battlefields stop..." What I was attempting to do was to have "Ancient Warriors who fought on ancient battlefields" as my subject, then have my main verb /mev/. I can't do this? Otherwise, I understand about having /Daq-/ after the verb.
Third, if you're taking about "on the ancient battlefields," remember that
Type 5 nouns suffixes like /-Daq/ migrate onto any adjectivally-acting verb.
It's /che'ronmey tIQDaq/, not */che'ronmeyDaq tIQ/. Finally, /vaj/
doesn't refer to specific warriors, it refers to the concept of being a
warrior. A specific warrior is "SuvwI'."
<><>I purposely placed /Daq-/ on the noun so that I would get this comment. I don't know what suffixes migrate from the noun to the adjective in Klingon. And where can I find this out in TKD or KGT? Also, I, again, used /vaj/ to create an abstract sense of the nature of a warrior. Sort of like saying, "A TRUE Warrior would stop to enjoy the rain. This is what a Warrior does."
SISmo', pay' che'ronmey tIQDaq mev SuvtaHbogh SuvwI' tIQ, 'ej pIj pa' mev.
(Literally:) Because it rains, ancient warring fighters suddenly stopped on
ancient battlefields, and they often stopped there.
<><>I may not have made clear above what exactly I wanted to say with "Ancient Warriors who fought on Ancient battlefields." I don't exactly want to say that Warriors stopped only on battlefields, but that ancient warriors of whom we know to have fought in the ancient battles described in our history books and of whom fought with Kahless in the ancient times...those warriors and those kinds of warriors always stopped for the rain. Not that they stopped on a battlefield, but wherever and whenever it rained, they stopped. Would my translation work now, knowing what I was going for?
>'ej chal Ho' chaH.
People often forget the /lu-/ prefix. /chal luHo' chaH/.
<><>Why do I need /lu'/? Isn't my sentence, "They admire the sky?" I don't want to say, "The sky was admired."
>pIjHa' SIS Qo'noS
I don't think Kronos rains, I think it rains on Kronos. I don't have my
sources to back it up right now, but I'd do this as
pIjHa' Qo'noSDaq SIS
It doesn't rain on Kronos often.
<><>Yeah, I think this can go both ways, though. Sort of personifying Kronos. Gives a good element to my story :)
>'ej reH ngoDvetlh quvmoH vajpu'vetlh.
Again, change /vajpu'vetlh/ to /SuvwI'pu'vetlh/.
Again, /vaj/ is what I was going for :)
> SISbogh chal 'e' vIquvmoH.
/SISbogh chal/ isn't a sentence, so /'e'/ can't refer to it. Just drop the
/'e'/: /SISbogh chal vIquvmoH/ "I honor the raining sky."
<><>THAT SOUNDS SO MUCH BETTER! I knew that my subject title was off. qatlho'.
Daj tIghlIj. SISbogh chal quvmoHlu'pu' not 'e' vIQoy. tlhIngan tIgh
'oH'a'? Da'ogh'a'?
<><>One question: why is /not/ before /'e'/? Should it be, /'e' not vIQoy/? I suppose you won't find this custom anywhere in the archives of Klingon rituals, but I do believe that during the day Kronos was very hot and that it would almost make sense for Klingons to appreciate it when it rained. Also, and this is my favorite of all theories!!!! I believe that rivalries and wars between houses occured because of a shortage of water. This would explain why Kahless set down (and Klingon tradition dictates) that water is a sign of weakness. Kahless tried to unite all Klingons, but with some houses in control of an oasis or a river, etc., he could not do so (wars probably occured because some houses needed the water and would try to fight over it). By saying water is weak, it gave Klingons a reason to stop fighting. It also helped make the empire stronge, knowing full well that when they fought, the empire was in chaos and therefore weak. That's why I think Ancient warriors
praised the sky when it rained. Those warring warriors were probably fighting for water, so when it rained, they could stop and enjoy it :) Whatcha' think?
qen tlhoy SISmo' jI'IQtaH ('ej jIyIQtaH). motlh SIS 'e' vItIv, 'a
'IqchoHpu' 'engmey! DaHjaj wov chal. jIQuch! murIHmoHtaH chal wov. ('ej
vaj no' vIquvmoHbe'.)
<><>See, the rain has an oposite effect on me. Rain makes me smile :) The bright sky makes you happy, huh? Eh, you were probably born of a clan that had water! :) But, why did you say you do not honor ancestors? Thank you for your advice and careful reading...
SuStel
Stardate 3459.6
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taHjaj wo'!
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