tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jun 10 15:05:29 2003

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Re: lugh'a' mughghachvam?


I think what's happening in these cases is that, in English, we happen to 
have a related word that already incorporates the "cause to be" meaning.  
For instance, "shine" happens to mean "cause to be shiny."  "Please" happens 
to mean "cause to be pleased."  But you can't always count on there being a 
corresponding word in English for the {V-moH} meaning.  For instance, 
{paSmoH} "cause to be late", we have a separate word "delay" that's not 
related to the root word "late."  ("My flat tire caused me to be late"; "My 
flat tire delayed me.").  But with "early," there's no corresponding word at 
all.  {mu'eqmoH DujwIj Do} "my ships velicity caused me to be early."  We 
don't have any word in English that means "cause to be early."  We just say, 
"my speed made me early" or something like that (or some other recast 
entirely: "I'm early because I sped.")

With some words in English, we get around this with a suffix "-ify."  
{moHmoH qabDaj} "his face caused him to be ugly," or "his face uglified 
him."  Same with "beautify," and so on.  But this is word play I think, and 
not always productive.  You can't say "the flat tire late-ified me" or "my 
speeding earlified me."

I don't think there's any easy formula here.  We have some English words 
that represent a {V-moH} concept ("please," "delay"), and for some {V-moH} 
words we just don't have anything that directly corresponds in English.  So 
the answer, of course, is to stop thinking in English, and understand the 
Klingon word for what it means by itself.  The sooner you stop looking for 
the Engish equivalent to the Klingon, the faster you'll improve your skill 
with the language.  (I know, I know, easier said than done.)

--
d'Armond Speers, Ph.D.
[email protected]





>From: Klingon Warrior <[email protected]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: lugh'a' mughghachvam?
>Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:40:53 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Thank you, Voragh.  The thing I have difficulty on is the fact that Dal (be 
>boring) was not changed to (bore) with DalmoH.  From the dictionary, and 
>even those examples you gave me, the quality verbs sure look like they're 
>being changed to an action verb.  (be pleased) to (please).  (be shiny) to 
>(shine).  etc.  I understand "okay" now.  Thank you for your help.  By the 
>way, /boch/ means "be shiny" and "shine", right?  So in your example below, 
>I really wouldn't need -moH to say, "If you shine my nose."  qar'a'?
>
>Steven Boozer <[email protected]> wrote:Klingon Warrior:
> >>SuStel, am I right in thinking that this translation is correct?
> >>"You disgraced me!" - /chowebmoH/
> >>"If it pleases you." - /DubelmoHchugh/
>
>SuStel:
> >Yes, those are correct. You're not understanding the meaning of /-moH/,
> >though (I'm referring to another post you just sent). Its purpose isn't
> >to make a quality verb into an action verb. Its purpose is to say that
> >the subject causes the object to do verb. In the case of /DalmoH/, the
> >subject is causing the object to "be borning." /yaS DalmoH HoD/ = "The
> >captain causes the officer to be boring."
> >
> >It doesn't matter whether the verb is a quality verb or an action verb.
> >/HIQoymoH/ "cause me to hear (something)" comes right out of TKD.
> >
> >/DalmoH/ does NOT mean "bore." It definitely means "cause to be boring."
>
>A few examples of verbs + {moH} from canon might help the Warrior:
>
>{belmoH} to please
>
>qabelmoH'a'?
>Do I please you? PK
>
>{bochmoH} shine (something)
>
>ghIchwIj DabochmoHchugh ghIchlIj qanob
>If you shine my nose, I will give you your nose. PK
>
>{chenHa'moH} destroy s.th.
>
>chenHa'moHlaH
>It can destroy them
>("It can cause them to undo their form"). TKD
>
>{chenmoH} build, form, make, create
>
>tIjwI'ghom vIchenmoH
>I form a boarding party.
>["I cause a boarding party to be formed."] TKD
>
>wIchenmoHlaH
>We can create it. TKD
>
>{ghojmoH} teach, instruct
>
>batlh qaghojmoHpu'
>It has been an honor to instruct you. CK
>
>{lamHa'choHmoH} get something cleaned
>
>nuqDaq waqwIj vIlamHa'choHmoH
>Where can I get my shoes cleaned? TKD
>
>
>
>--
>Voragh
>Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
>
>
>
>Klingon Warrior
>taHjaj wo'!
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
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