tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jun 10 07:25:59 2003
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Re: lugh'a' mughghachvam?
From: "Klingon Warrior" <[email protected]>
> SuStel, I don't fully understand what you mean. Is there somewhere else I
can read and learn about -ghach other than
> the one paragraph in TKD on page 176 or is that all there is regarding
that suffix?
HolQeD volume 3 number 3 had an interview with Okrand in which he explains a
lot about -ghach.
> In Okrand's example on page 176 of TKD, he says the verb /lo'laH/ (be
valuable) can be made the noun value when
> placing the suffix on it (lo'laHghach). There is no verb suffix in
between the verb and -ghach.
He starts out with the word /lo'/ "use," both noun and verb. From here, he
adds the suffix /-laH/, and then /-ghach/. (Clearly, he hadn't yet decided
firmly that /lo'laH/ "be valuable" is a verb distinct from /lo'laH/ "able to
use.")
> While reading this paragraph, the only rule really mentioned is that
verbs ending in -Ha' cannot have -ghach attached to
> them. Wait a minute, am I reading this right? Is it saying that though
some verbs can also be nouns, linguists know that
> verbs ending in -Ha' can never be nouns?
No. What he's saying is that there are a lot of verbs that are known to
also be nouns. He gives an example, /ta'/ "accomplishment (n)," "accomplish
(v)." He warns that it's not known if every verb can do this (he has since
proven that not every verb can do this: in KGT, he makes it clear that there
is no noun /tlhutlh/). Then he says that while some verbs can also be
nouns, they can't be nouns if they have verb suffixes on them. In order to
recognize them as nouns anyway, you need to add /-ghach/ to them.
/ta'/ is a verb that is also a noun. /ta'Ha'/ "accomplish wrongly" is a
verb, but it isn't also a noun: nouns don't have verb suffixes. Unless,
that is, it also has /-ghach/. /ta'Ha'ghach/ would mean "accomplishment
done wrongly." It can't be expressed by /ta'Ha'/, because that can only
mean "accomplish wrongly," a verb.
> since -ghach is a Type 9, would a suffix like -vam come before or
after -ghach (you know, "this value - /lo'laHghachvam/
> or /lo'laHvamghach/?).
Noun suffixes and verb suffixes don't mix. The word would be
/lo'laHghachvam/ "this value." Again, don't read too much into the fact
that /lo'laH/ is known to be a separate word: it wasn't know to be, even by
Okrand, when this passage was written.
/lo'laHghach/ is a noun. As such, it can take noun suffixes. They can't be
added to /lo'/ or to /lo'laH/, because those aren't nouns (/lo'/ is using
/-ghach/, which is a verb suffix, so it's a verb).
SuStel
Stardate 3440.1