tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Feb 13 11:12:19 2003
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Re: Syllabification
ngabwI' wrote:
> > Are their any rules known concerning Klingon syllables?
(for example
that they >> MUST start with a consonant or something...)
> Once again, no rules per se, but I'll give you a quarter
if you can find a
> {tlhIngan Hol} word that starts with a vowel. (Remember,
{'} is a full-
> blown consonant).
That's exactly what I meant with that you'd have a rule like
"VC is not allowed".
>>re because it always looks nice and
>> it sounds nice (i.e. sounds Klingon).
>The glottal stop is a letter of the alphabet, just like all
the other letters.
>(It is a consonant.)
>You don't add letters just because it looks nice. When that
name is spoken,
>are there any glottal stops?
What I meant with 'nice' is the bit of artistic freedom you
have when you'd choose a Klingon
name. If I would try to transcribe my name exactly the way
it sounds in Dutch, with the exact
realisations of the phonemes, I wouldn't be able to write it
in Klingon anyway. Klingon doesn't
have a /k/, that's why we use a /q/ to transcribe a name
with a /k/.
About the second thing, we are talking about a word of which
we only know the anglicised
spelling, right? Ngarakkani. How do we know that a similar
sounding Klingon name does not
contain a glottal stop, since we cannot tell simply looking
at the anglicised spelling
because anglicised spelling doesn't write glottal stops,
since it is not a full-fledged
consonant. If we take a look at the Klingon spelling for
Worf, wo'rIv, then we can see that
there is again a big realisational difference between the
two. It could very well be that
the Klingon spelling of "Ngarakkani" contains a glottal stop
somewhere. It just wouldn't be
there in the Anglicised spelling.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DloraH wrote:
>The only consonant clusters in a single syllable are at the
end of some words.
>Some words end with rgh, w', y' (did I miss one?)
But then, in terms of phonetics, the 'consonants' /w/ and
/y/ are semi-vowels/semi-consonants
(bear in mind, I'm talking about sounds, not notation) will
only cause the preceding vowels to become diphthongs,
right?, after which we can say that the consonant <glottal
stop> does not occur in a true consonant cluster.
>> Are their any rules known concerning Klingon syllables?
(for
>> example that they MUST start with a consonant or
>> something...)
>We don't have any RULES, but we have observed that the
syllables in the words
>that we do have tend to be CVC, with some CV; with the
exception of those
>clusters mentioned above, and one special suffix -oy.
>
>So the name in question would be broken down:
>nga-ra-qa-nI
> CV-CV-CV-CV (ng is a single consonant)
>
>Depending on how the name is pronounced, glottal stops
could be added after any
>of the vowels; or you could put it before a vowel (except
the first one) and
>then move the previous C to the previous syllable.
>One example: nga'-ra-qan-'I
>
In order to satisfy the "no-C-cluster-with-glottal-stop"
constraint. Right.
>BUT, since this is a name, we're usually not concerned with
following these
>rules. Several people here have names that don't fit the
syllable pattern.
Wouldn't these names fit into the
Anglicised-Klingon-Spelling box, where you sometimes find
apostrophes in the weirdest positions, with the
non-anglicised-Klingon forms conforming to the 'rules'? i
don't know, perhaps I'm being too Chomskyan here trying to
explain everything through rules...
---------------------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 2/13/2003 8:38:46 AM Eastern
Standard Time, [email protected] writes:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "C. Krottje" <[email protected]>
> > > Are their any rules known concerning Klingon
syllables? (for example
> that they >> MUST start with a consonant or something...)
>
> Once again, no rules per se, but I'll give you a quarter
if you can find a
> {tlhIngan Hol} word that starts with a vowel. (Remember,
> {'} is a full-
> blown consonant).
>
>Interestingly, in English, words that "begin" with vowels
actually
>begin with a glottal stop (try it yourself!) which is just
not
>written in. So, in this regard, Klingon and English
phonology
>are in agreement.
>
>-- ter'eS
Words with an initial vowel that stand in isolation, yes.
But in the middle of a sentence (most of the time), this
would not be the case. A sentence such as "I'm off to the
art school" only contains one glottal stop - at the
beginning of "I'm". The "m" is taking the place of the
underlying glottal stop and the /a/ in art starts with the
semi-vowel /j/. Although, I do think it might be possible to
pronounce an isolated with initial vowel without pronouncing
either a glottal stop or an /h/. It's hard though! (try it
once).
YET One is not allowed to get rid of the Klingon glottal
stop in such a context right? Since meanings of words might
get changed if leaving the glottal stop out.
---qeyS---