tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Feb 08 01:44:33 2003
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Re: Thanks to both of you, Quvar and Scott.
- From: Quvar valer <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: Thanks to both of you, Quvar and Scott.
- Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 08:52:36 +0100
Noel wrote:
>Thanks to both of you, Quvar and Scott. you´ve answered to my questions,
>like the klingon saying: ?When a warrior goes into battle, he does not
>abandon his friends?
Another phrase from TKW says "Care about your students": {ghojwI'pu'lI' tISaH}
As a Beginners' Grammarian, that's my duty, so {ghojwI'pu'wI' vISaH} :-)
>My battle is the klingon languaje.
language
>My computer make mistakes too, it corrects phrases which are corrected.
How? Is it also your computer who uses `acc´ents´ instead of 'apo'stro'phes'?
>Your spanish are better that my klingonese.
Careful: we learn "Klingon", but "Klingonese" also exists. If I rememember correctly, it's a Klingon language used in some
books only.
Anyway, thanks! I must admit that it took some time for me to do the welcome message in spanish. I don't speak it fluently.
:-)
>If I can help you with it, say it.
I would love to find a mailing list like this one to practice spanish! In this list, I learned most of my klingon. Any ideas? I
already have a flashcard program to practice vocabulary, but I need more input! ;-)
>que dice el refrán klingon: ?Cuando un guerrero entra en batalla, no
>abandona a sus amigos?.
Has traducido esa frase, o hay libros sobre el klingon en espanol?
>Satlho?,
Interesting, not it's not apostrophes, it's not accents, it's some kind of quotation marks... weird computer. You gotta change
something there, I think. This is not my computer, is it??
>Quvar ?ej Scott.
TKD section 5.3 tells us how to use conjunctions: >>>>The conjunctions joining nouns come after the final noun.<<<<
So we get {Quvar Scott je} "Quvar and Scott".
(By the way, Quvar's terran name is Lieven, and Scott's Klingon name is ngabwI' :-)
>yu?HommeywI? tujangta?,
1. {yu'} is *only* a verb, meaning "question" in the sense of "interrogate". There's a verb for "ask (a question)" {ghel}, this
would work better here.
2. You are using the suffix {-wI'} on the [wrong] word for question. Possessive suffixes are described in TKD section
3.3.4. Type 4: Possession/specification.
Briefly: the suffixes ending with an apostrophe are only used for being capable of speech, like {vavwI'} "my father".
A question cannot speak, so you need {-wIj}: {DochwIj} "my thing"
It's not the possessor who needs speech capability, but the possessed thing.
>"may' Daa jaHDI' SuvwI' juppu' Daj lonbe"
{may'Daq jaHDI' SuvwI' juppu'Daj lonbe'}
>jatlh tlhIngan mu?tlhegh ?e? rap ?oH.
You're using the word {rap} "same", because you think of "it's like ..."
But when you use {'e'}there, you have a sentence as object (described in TKD section 6.2.5), and then {rap 'oH} doesn't
fit here.
Did you intend to say "... and it's the same"? This would make sense here:
{jatlh tlhIngan mu'tlhegh 'ej rap 'oH}
"says the klingon sentence and it's the same"
Okay, this is grammatically correct, but I doubt that a sentence can "speak", and what does "it" {'oH} refer to?
>tlhIngan Hol jIH jImay?.
This is apparently "my battle is the klingon language".
{may'} "battle" is a noun, so you cannot add the prefix {jI-} to it (the meaning would be something like "me battle", which
makes no sense.)
To say such a sentence, you need to make a so-called "To-Be-Construction" . This is described in section 6.3. of TKD.
Again, I'll make a short summary:
to say "X is Y" in Klingon it is {Y 'oH X'e'}
So, when saying "my battle is the klingon language", "my battle" fits in the X-slot, and "the klingon language" comes to the
Y.
Now you're asking for the "is". Well, there is no word in Klingon for "to be", so we need to do it differently, we use a
pronoun. (pronouns are described in section 5.1., and the use in this case is also described in section 6.3 about to-be-
constructions.) So, with this information we get
{tlhIngan Hol 'oH may'wIj'e'}
"My battle is the klingon language"
>Qagh je jIDe?wI?, .
Really interesting: now I see question marks instead of the apostrophes. :-)
"my computer" = {De'wI'} "computer" + {-wIj} #4 "my"
possessive suffixes always follow the word. When you start a word with the prefix {jI-}, then it is a verb.
>lulughbogh mu?tlheghmey lugh
>it corrects phrases that are correct.
>corrige frases que están correctas.
maj: {mu'tlheghmey} "sentences"
But! - we can use some verbs like adjectives: the ones which are usually translated as "be xyz". These follow the noun they
modify.
"to be correct" is {lugh}, hence a "correct sentence" is {mu'tlhegh lugh} (una "frase correcta").
Now this will be the object (i.e. the thing that's being corrected by the computer)so it comes first. Then, we need a verb:
"correct" (in the sense of "cause to be correct", I'll explain this suffix later): {lughmoH}
{mu'tlheghmey lugh lughmoH}
"he or she or it corrects correct sentences"
The subject follows the verb, so we just add {De'wI'wIj} "my computer"
{mu'tlheghmey lugh lughmoH De'wI'wIj}
"my computer corrects correct sentences"
You could also go a bit more difficult and say it as a relative clause, using the suffix {-bogh} "which" described in section
6.2.3 - Read it!
With this the object will be {lughbogh mu'tlheghmey} "sentences which are correct". This whole thing can be used like
anoun, and be put in the place where it was before:
{lughbogh mu'tlheghmey lughmoH De'wI'wIj}
"my computer corrects sentences which are correct"
Maybe you intended to say that the sentences "have been corrected" already. This will be a very difficult construction (to a
beginner at least.) To understand all the following, I suggest you read TKD first, or at least for the prefixes {-moH, -lu', -
ta', -bogh} in section 4.2.4 - 4.2.9
I'll go through it step by step, without explanation:
{lughmoH} "cause it to be correct"
{lughmoHlu'} "someone causes it to be correct"
{lughmoHlu'ta'} "someone did cause it to be correct"
{lughmoHlu'ta'bogh} "which someone did cause to be correct"
{mu'tlhegh lughmoHlu'ta'bogh} "sentence which someone did cause to be correct"
this whole worm can now be used like any noun:
{mu'tlhegh lughmoHlu'ta'bogh lughmoH De'wI'wIj} "my computer corrects sentences which someone did cause to be
correct"
>spanish-HollI? QaQ law? wI?tlhIngan Hol QaQ puS.
You put the possessive suffix on the correct place in spanish Hol, and then you put on the wrong place at {tlhIngan Hol}.
Besides, you used the wrong one, I explained this in the beginning of this mail already, scroll back! ;-)
{HolwIj} "my language"
{HollIj} "your language"
{tlhIngan HolwIj} "my klingon language"
{HollIj QaQ law' HolwIj QaQ puS}
"your language is better than my language."
Now I'll come to the problem: It's not *my* spanish, and it's not *your* Klingon language. It belongs to all of us (at least
the spanish). The thing which might be better is your language-*skill*! In Klingon: {laH} "ability"
{*spanish*Hol laHlIj QaQ law' tlhIngan Hol laHwIj QaQ puS}
"your spanish language ability is better than my klingon language ability."
>Dajatlh SaQaHlaHchugh.
maj. {SaQaHlaHchugh} "if I can help you"
{Dajatlh} is only a statement, "you speak/say it"
When giving a command, use the imperative prefix {yI-}, and maybe use another word. {ja'} "tell, report" is better than
{jatlh} "speak/say".
{SaQaHlaHchugh, vaj yIja'}
"if I can help you, then tell (it)"
Just for your interest:
- prefixes come before the verb (pre- = before)
- suffixes come after the verb
- affixes is general term which includes both of these.
.-=-. .-=-. .-=-. .-=-. .-=-.
wow! - now this was a long message, and I didn't even explain everything.
Now you should go and read the sections in TKD if there is something you didn't understand, and send us a few more
sentences to show us what you've learned ;-).
And, of course, if you have more questions, just go ahead and ask them!
Quvar
Beginners' Grammarian
ghojwI'pu'wI' vISaH