tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon May 13 23:22:05 2002
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weather verbs' subject (was Re: middle voice)
- From: Alan Anderson <email@example.com>
- Subject: weather verbs' subject (was Re: middle voice)
- Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 22:22:40 -0500
- In-Reply-To: <OE5306qCupOhMevKpUB00019e69@hotmail.com>
- References: <F12695IhwNqg5w2QenX00017aef@hotmail.com><OE5306qCupOhMevKpUB00019e69@hotmail.com>
ja'pu' Sean Healy:
> ...whereas in
> Klingon, we have to indicate morphemically that the subject is unknown.
>There is one known possible exception to this. We've often debated the
>correct usage of verbs indicating weather conditions: SIS, jev, peD, maybe
>one or two more I haven't thought of offhand. What's the correct subject of
I had the impression that the correct subject is so blatantly obvious that
stating it would be silly. Asking what the subject is reveals a serious
lack of general knowledge. :-)
>Okrand, obviously in response to having heard about these debates, was
>reported by a list member to have looked up on a rainy day and announce,
"It rains." That matches the way English treats such verbs.
>Based upon this, it would seem that when using these verbs, no subject is
>used. This is just a guess based on flimsy evidence, but I don't see any
>reason not to accept it (there's no better evidence anywhere). I would also
>guess that they don't take objects either, making the use of these verbs
>nearly restricted to exclamations.
I think you're remembering only a very small part of the evidence. Here's
the actual quote from DloraH's "long weekend with MO":
>SIS. In a way everyone was correct with this one. It rained a few times
>during the weekend, so we were put into the situation to discuss it.
>SISlu', altho grammaticlly correct, he didn't particularly like. Someone
>COULD use it but to me it sounds like they skipped science class and don't
>know what the subject is.
>You can also give it an object and say things like the clouds rained down
>cats and dogs. ...or something like that; you get the idea.
>But when Marc and I went outside and drops of water were falling on us, he
>looked up and simply said "SIS".
I don't have a problem accepting that, in general, no explicit subject is
*stated*, but it seems clear to me that the verb still does have a subject.