tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Mar 04 09:11:23 2002

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Re: Hoch, 'op, bID, pagh, chang'eng



> >Hoch chabmey  all the pies; all pies
> >        [also "generic Hoch" as in "take any pie in the universe and
> >        you'll see it has a certain property"?]
> 
> This refers to "all the pies" taken as a collection.  The individuality
> of the components is not relevant.

"Kor stole all the pies"

 
> >Hoch chab  (SuStel:) each pie
> 
> The pies are being considered individually.  There are perhaps more than
> one of them, but the important thing is that you're talking about them
> one at a time.

"The captain tasted each pie"


> >chab Hoch - (SuStel:) all of the pie (the same as "chab naQ"?)
> 
> They are emphatically not the same!  {naQ} is a quality, not a quantifier.
> {chab naQ} is talking about a pie which is complete.  It's not talking
> about the amount of the pie.

chab Hoch
 "The captain ate all of the pie; there was nothing left of it."

chab naQ
 "There were two pies, one that was whole, and one that already had a piece 
taken from it.  He took the pie that was whole."

 
> >chabmey Hoch - all of the pies (in a batch/lot)
> >        [context: wa'maH chab(mey) vIvut. 'ey *chabmey Hoch*.
> >        (I cooked ten pies. All of the pies were delicious)]
> 
> My understanding of a trailing {Hoch} is limited to having it apply to
> a single thing.  KGT page 155:
> 
>   nIn Hoch natlhlu'pu'

chabmey Hoch, just like above when the captain ate all of the pie; here he eats 
all of more than one pie.
"The captain ate all of both pies."
 

> >HochHom chabmey? - ?most of the pies
> 
> Something like that, but with the implication that the pies which are being
> talked about make up a single group, and the focus is more on the
> group than on the individual pies.

"Kor stole most of the pies"

 
> >HochHom chab? - ?most of the pie
> 
> It would translate better as "most pies", I think.  "Most of the pie"
> would almost certainly be {chab HochHom}.

"Kor took a bite from almost every pie"


> >chab HochHom  (SuStel:) almost all of the pie
> 
> Yes, in the manner of the "most of the 23rd Century" example from Skybox
> S15.

"The captain ate most of the pie.  There is still a piece left."


> >chabmey HochHom - ?most of the pies (i.e. the majority of them)
> 
> I can't make the meaning of this one settle down in my head,

"The guests ate most of the pies.  There is a piece or two left of each pie."


DloraH


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