tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Mar 03 23:02:09 2002

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Re: Hoch, 'op, bID, pagh, chang'eng

I'm only going to address the word {Hoch}, because that's the only
"numberish" noun we have enough examples of for me to feel confident about.

>Hoch chabmey  all the pies; all pies
>        [also "generic Hoch" as in "take any pie in the universe and
>        you'll see it has a certain property"?]

This refers to "all the pies" taken as a collection.  The individuality of
the components is not relevant.

I'm pretty sure the idea of "all pies" (and the "generic" property concept)
is better carried by {Hoch chab}.  See the examples on page 74 of The
Klingon Way:

  DujDaj HubtaHvIS Hegh 'e' tul Hoch tlhIngan
  Qu'Daj ta'taHvIS Hegh 'e' tul Hoch tlhIngan
  wo' toy'taHvIS Hegh 'e' tul Hoch tlhIngan

>Hoch chab  (SuStel:) each pie

The pies are being considered individually.  There are perhaps more than
one of them, but the important thing is that you're talking about them one
at a time.

>chabmey Hoch - all of the pies (in a batch/lot)
>        [context: wa'maH chab(mey) vIvut. 'ey *chabmey Hoch*.
>        (I cooked ten pies. All of the pies were delicious)]

My understanding of a trailing {Hoch} is limited to having it apply to a
single thing.  KGT page 155:

  nIn Hoch natlhlu'pu'

>chab Hoch - (SuStel:) all of the pie (the same as "chab naQ"?)

They are emphatically not the same!  {naQ} is a quality, not a quantifier.
{chab naQ} is talking about a pie which is complete.  It's not talking
about the amount of the pie.

>HochHom chabmey? - ?most of the pies

Something like that, but with the implication that the pies which are being
talked about make up a single group, and the focus is more on the group
than on the individual pies.

>HochHom chab? - ?most of the pie

It would translate better as "most pies", I think.  "Most of the pie" would
almost certainly be {chab HochHom}.

>chabmey HochHom - ?most of the pies (i.e. the majority of them)

I can't make the meaning of this one settle down in my head,

>chab HochHom  (SuStel:) almost all of the pie

Yes, in the manner of the "most of the 23rd Century" example from Skybox S15.

-- ghunchu'wI' 'utlh

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